Decision time - state grammar school or quasi-selective independent school

[Quattrocento]

We truly don't know what to do about DD's secondary education. She has always been in the independent sector and is in year 6 at her prep school. The independent school into which the prep school feeds is nice enough. But we entered her into the 11+ for a state grammar school, and we learned today that she'd passed the exam with a high enough mark to ensure a place. So we don't really know what to do. DD says she doesn't much mind what she does and wants to abdicate responsibility leave the decision to us.

I've made a list of the pros and cons for moving to the state grammar school

1. She gets to mix with a very broad range of backgrounds in terms of wealth BUT it's far less ethnically diverse. I like the idea of DD being able to mix across a broad social/racial spectrum.
2. The state grammar has slightly worse exam results BUT the intake is slightly brighter so the difference might be bigger than it appears.
3. The state grammar school has nothing much happening in the way of sporting stuff and DD is super-sporty.
4. The state grammar school doesn't seem to do much in terms of other out-of-school activities
5. The state grammar school seems to have lower standards of behaviour - lots of children quite badly dressed and swearing etc in a way that made little DD's eyes go round as saucers.
6. The state grammar school is going to save us around £80k on independent school fees. The fees are not an issue now but they would be if I were made redundant (looks nervously at global economic environment).

What do you think?

Why do you say that, science teacher? I thought state grammar schools were what everyone really wanted ...

I wasn't impressed with the one I taught in. I'm glad I'm not there now.

State grammars are what most people want because >90% of the population cannot afford £80k.

There is a minority group of parents in your position QC. There are quite of few of that sort of parent in my family and some of us (I am including cousins and cousins' children) went to state grammars and some went private. There isn't much to choose between the two groups in terms of life achievement but I think standards in UK state schools are no longer going to be competitive on the world stage and from the sounds of it your DD will be the sort of girl who, if she wants, will be able to compete in the global professional job market. So maximise her chances.

'but I think standards in UK state schools are no longer going to be competitive on the world stage'

..... what a totally meaningless sentence.

What part did you not understand, violethill?

all of it. It means nothing.

Well, maybe it means something to you and your own personal agenda whatever that may be, but makes no sense.

I have no personal agenda other than maximising the educational opportunities for children - my own and all others I encounter, directly or indirectly.

I think it's pretty clear what she meant.
I mean you don't have to agree with it but being rude is uncalled for.

bonsoir anna

I assume you have no experience of a state grammar 'spend the 80k'

as someone WITH experience of 2 state grammars my retort is

'you would be dim to waste your cash'

I passed the 11+ and spent 5 terms at a state grammar (and left only because my family moved abroad). Many of my cousins went to state grammars; so I do have a quite a bit of experience.

I think providing you havwe more than enough to cover the fees ( whicjh I'm sure Quatt does) then that aspect is a red herring.
The question then is which would her DD enjoy more.

my friend with ds1 in independant school is sending her ds2 to the state grammar

her reasoning

'from what I have seen of (ds1 name) and his friends (name of independant school) turns them into pompous arses'

that's one opinion

No school can 'turn' a child into anything.
Surely we as parents have that resposiblity - and then only up to a certain age when it becomes down to them and there personlity.

Quattro - fees aside, I think your OP answers your question. If you can afford it, you already have your answer!

Well, she's been in an independent school thus far, so perhaps continuing on and with pupils she knows and is friends with is the answer to that one.

I got as far as the sport issue, and that was enough - don't send your dd to a school that is poor at what she loves most. Spend the 80K but look around to see if you can find another school that's more to your liking.

(I was a grammar school girl by the way - it was a very good academic education, and excellent in music, but very poor at sport and poor at getting every girl to get involved in things they weren't naturally already good at. It wasn't until i got to university that I found I was actually pretty good at sport, given some coaching. A shame for general health and life, IMO).

QC, do you know anyone else who has gone to the grammar from your prep. Nothing like getting the lowdown from someone who has done it.

Yes there is someone who made the transition - yes I should check, shouldn't I?

There is another aspect which seems to me to be relevant - DD's independent school is single sex whereas the grammar school is mixed. I know all the evidence points to girls doing better in singlesex schools but throughout her life, DD is going to have to deal with (and compete with) men so for me this seems to be a positive for the state school.

There are plenty of girls at state grammar schools who can compete in the 'global professional job market', most of which are either at or applying (and will probably get a place) to Oxbridge.

Let's face it, you are choosing between the lifestyle of the independently educated (all Jack Wills, floppy hair, lacrosse and the right connections) and the grammar school educated lot.

Depends what you value as important really.

I think there is a kind of mass hysteria emanating from the independent sector as to what would happen to their children were they thrown into a state grammar school. I think they might actually find their children struggling rather....

I think DD will thrive in most environments tbh - she's that sort of gal. Not sure I can say the same of DS. But I am worried that she will (a) lose her sports (b) adapt to lower standards of behaviour and (c) not be stretched enough. But there are of course lots of advantages and perhaps even though it looks like a monumental decision - I should just not worry about it.

Ria - Perhaps your friend has really run short of cash - but feels it would be rather rude to say "Of course I'd much rather send him private, but we just can'r afford it."

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

Quattro - I have a super sporty DS who is going the independent route mainly because the sports is so well integrated into the daily school routine.
Our previous experience, in state primary, was that he was constantly having to go to and fro from different actitivies after school. There is no way he would be able to maintain the same level of after school sports activity at our local grammar and get his homework done every day. If the after school sports was on our doorstep so there was no travel involved it might have been a different story however.

Do you have a super sporty ds?