Daughter hating year 7

[AllGonePeteTong1]

DD has been increasingly withdrawn the last few months. I had put it down to hormones but she broke down tonight and confided in me how much she hates her new secondary school. It's the local comp that is very well regarded, ofsted outstanding, well behaved kids in an affluent area. All her friends have gone to the school with her so all should be fine.

But things haven't been great from the start. She has found it incredibly strict, with detentions given out for the most minor offences (eg forgetting a book). She doesn't like a single one of her teachers because 'they're always shouting or tellling us off.'

She's also struggling a bit with the work, mainly because she says she finds it so boring (despite being a very engaged and good student at junior school). I also think the constant underlying stress she feels isn't conducive to learning. There is no bullying or anything like that - she's assured me on that.

I'm not sure what to do. She's started saying she doesn't want to go to school and even said she'd like to go to another one. She is adamant that I can't speak to her teachers about it and 'make a fuss'. She made me promise I wouldn't say anything.

Has anyone been in this situation and if so how did you handle in? Any teachers that can help advise on the right approach to take (potentially) with the school?

I hate seeing my previously happy, engaged girl so miserable 😞

@fanaticalfairy resilience is important but it is important to know when to push on and when to concede/stop something/change something because pushing on is either unnecessary and/or cause harm to continue

because if you continually aren’t picked for an optional team what is the point if you could be do something else

learning how to do exams and recognising that you aren’t in high school always going to get good marks is something you need to push through

I do not have the words to tell you how much I disagree with this attitude.

Suck it up, even if it is fundamentally wrong - how is this going to help to reduce the levels of mental health problems in young adults and result in young people getting the best out of school?

This rigid attitude and lack of flexibility is causing a generation of young people to hate school, to just go though the motions rather than gain in any positive way, or to become school refusers.

This is an important time in their lives - a precious time that will never come again - so why do we ask them to grit their teeth and tolerate the intolerable? Why not make learning a positive experience?

It is a vicious circle - draconian discipline leading to rebellion and the need for more discipline. What on earth is the point?

I think lots of schools are like this so changing schools may not be the answer, although I appreciate that some schools are worse than others. It is a huge transition. I would be telling my child that what they are feeling is not abnormal in the least but that they can, and will, settle and enjoy their new school. Continue with the netball, make new friends and work in class. Teachers currently don't know any of the new cohort and do (IMO) come down heavily on rules and regs in the first term and then ease off when they become more familiar with the students.

When my son started secondary his friend got a detention on the very first day for not wearing his jumper (this being a hot September day). My son got detentions for the most ridiculous reasons - my favourites were "putting his blazer on too slowly" and "looking down at Miss X while in classroom queue" (Miss X being 5'2" and DS being 6'5" looking down whilst both were standing was an inevitability. DS attended every silly detention but we laughed about them at home. Resilience is important, being adaptive to change is important as is not taking things too personally. It takes time to settle into secondary but it does happen. Best of luck to your daughter OP.

(edited for typo)

I don't think that working on her exam technique and trying to help her with the tests is the worst thing to do. That's not a bad skill to have. To be fair though OP I suspect if it was just that and she felt supported at school then it would be a very different situation for your DD.

If there is another school with space, go look with her and move her. Moving in year 7 is fine, especially if she's asking to.
(I moved my DD as quickly as the local authority would allow and it worked out much better than dragging it out and making her more unhappy and less engage with school)

@Mischance I totally agree with you. One thing school can do is allow dc to be themselves. Obviously correcting very poor behaviour, but not drumming the personality out of dc. There is always a need for young people to develop a sense of belonging, a sense of fairness and also critical thinking. That doesn’t involve slavishly following crude rules that are poorly devised and are applied in a draconian way. It’s awful prep for working and thinking as an individual. It’s failing lots of dc who think more deeply about their lives. It’s also an issue for employers as young dc tend to sit back and not engage for fear of being wrong.

Most dc don’t expect to be top in everything but dc do need support to improve and be able to approach staff. Where there’s fear and avoidance of staff, improving is more difficult than it needs to be. It’s all very sad.

My DD is out the other side now (at 6th form) and has talked to me about this. She thinks it was right for her to stay. Pastoral support was good though.
Quite a few kids swap schools in year 7 to one which is a better fit for them.
It's hard sometimes as a parent to know which is the right direction but you know her the best.

I think there is a massive shock from children in primary when if you misbehave in class you might miss 5 minutes of your playtime to secondary where if you misbehave in class there are more severe consequences. Even for the well behaved children to witness this they are shocked.

I am surprised at detentions though, usually there are negative comments in their planner and repeated offences then become a detention. Does her planner not lay out their rules and discipline?

To avoid forgetting compulsory equipment such as rulers they should just have a school pencil case that lives in their bag and have a supply at home to use. Mine had 2 pencil cases, one with all the compulsory stuff, a second with spares plus lesser used items like a compass, coloured pencils etc.

I would contact her form teacher to talk about how she is feeling. The discipline needs to be in place to enable teachers to actually teach.

Before considering moving her I would at least make her do the new school run on the weekend, get up and out the door to be at the bus stop to catch the same bus, get on it and travel to the new school. Just so she is aware of the potential travelling time and what bus to get should hers not turn up at either end.

I would try to make this school work first and her banning you talking to her form teacher would have me worried that all the information you are getting back is her perspective on it all. You only contacted her form teacher about the "heavy" discipline. I went to a school that had uniform inspections before we entered the school building, 4 teachers, 2 on either side of the single file line as we slowly walked in. It isn't new.

The problem in some secondary schools is that you do not have to misbehave to get disciplined/punished .... you just have to be a fallible human being. What lesson is this for our children?

@Mischance All the information is coming from the child. As a parent and having worked in a school some children misinterpret situations because they are children. I would want to hear the school's side of what is going on. Year 7 parent's evening for us was just a meeting with their form teacher in October talking about their organisation, management of homework, general behaviour in class and attitude to learning. We did not see the teachers until June. As a parent I would want to talk to their form teacher at the very least to get school's side of it. We had a tick box in the planner that we could tick to request a call home and this would happen within 48 hours of ticking the box.

We could email pastoral or head of year depending on what we wanted to talk about and our emails could be forwarded to the teacher by the school. It meant we had communication with the school. All we have with OP is are you going to calm down the heavy handed discipline request to the form teacher. That isn't addressing the other issues of why the child is upset. Teachers telling off a class shows that a class is not behaving, children not doing what they should be doing or doing something they shouldn't be doing. No teacher wants to be yelling at a class. Tone is often mistaken for yelling by children.

I certainly wasn't living in fear of a detention.

What happens in a detention that she is 'living in fear' of getting one? In my school days, detentions meant sitting in a room after school, supervised by a teacher. 'Living in fear' seems a somewhat disproportionate reaction to a short period of boredom and inconvenience, so what on earth is happening in detentions at her school?

It's not " Suck it up".

It's maybe don't expect to be on teams just because you go to every practice. Put some extra work in.

Don't expect to get 100% on a test. If too many people are getting 100% the test is too easy, and you don't know what you need to work on , or your strengths. You need to stretch your self by getting questions you can't answer. So you can identify gaps in knowledge, focus on them as well as learn how to fail, pick yourself up and go again. Resilience.

We can't all be on the netball team, and we can't all get 100%.

I think it's more what being put in detention represents when you've always been a good student that doesn't really get into trouble. In hindsight I wish I'd had more of this attitude when I was at school.

I think it's also made out to be something quite shameful, that probably goes right over the heads of the students that don't give a shit and behave badly but does affect the quiet well behaved ones who forget their ruler or don't realise their shirt is untucked.

Because, are you playing netball to be in a team, or are you playing netball because you enjoy it?

If you want to be in the team and aren't selected, you can strop and quit, or you can say "okay, I'll work a bit harder and see next time" and maybe practice drills 2-3 times a week .

My DS struggled with secondary transition although I think things deteriorated much quicker with him - by the end of October he was having frequent panic attacks and his attendance had dropped to about 60%. He’s now yr 10 and he’s (mostly) fine.

Things that helped

• finding lunchtime clubs so that he could meet new people, have something to look forward to and have a calm place to eat away from the noise and chaos of the canteen
• meeting the head of year with us to talk about things that might help (he hated going but she had some good suggestions, eg taking control of his own morning routine (before school) by getting a sunlight alarm clock and listening quietly to podcasts on his headphones)
• getting a ‘negative’ and realising that the world didn’t end
• input from a private therapist and later from a CAMHs inreach team who taught him how to deal with anxiety
• keeping weekends quiet and restful
• time

I really hope things change for your daughter. My advice would definitely be to contact the school and don’t delay reaching out to the GP if things get worse.

@fanaticalfairy words like strop and quitting are exactly the problem that forcing the idea of resilience creates.

The ability to recognise that actually no amount of practice or drills is going to get me the skill set I need (and here let’s assume it isn’t laziness which is a separate issue) and Netball isn’t for me. It’s not quitting or throwing a strop is maturely understanding that unlike in primary there are many other better netball players. Instead maybe another club would be better suited

learning when to let go and when to push is key to be successful in life not pushing through at all costs because stopping is seen as quitting/failing or being stroppy

Again, it depends why you are playing netball. If you are playing because you enjoy it, regardless of skill. Then that's the best reason. If you're doing it to get on a team, then that's fine, but don't feel disappointed/angry/what's the point. It's okay to say "not for me" and accept that with grace.

I agree about finding some lunch clubs or something fun to do at break. I know a lot of schools really encourage the Y7s to do this. Our DC says their lunch break activity is their favourite thing about school (and they’d probably hate school without it)! It also sounds like maybe your DD's been stuck with her old primary school friends and hasn’t branched out much yet, and maybe there's some friction as they are all starting to drift apart (mid-Y7 is probably a normal time for this to happen). Not having the support and camaraderie of good friends can make everything else seem worse.

This would also be my advice. Generally speaking, if someone hates their school, their feelings won't really change and a fresh start would be better.
I also think it's under-recognised how often a toxic school experience is a cause of PTSD.
If you loathe your school it is basically like prison: You're stuck there with the guards and other inmates, none of your choosing, and you can't escape.

Most secondary schools are strict and yes will give out detentions for forgetting books etc. It's to make the students to start take responsibility for themselves. Secondary school is vastly different to junior school in that respect. I don't think moving schools is the answer, she will find this level of strictness at most secondary schools. Junior school is different with discipline, teachers tend to still have the 'nicey nicey' approach. Secondary school is not like that, so yes students will be told off in a harsher way than Junior school. It's a learning curve, and some children find it much harder than others, to adapt. In order to help your daughter, you are going to need to speak to the school. I would suggest probably having a chat with the pastoral care team. Your daughter is only a few months into Year 7, and is struggling to settle. It's not uncommon and the Pastoral care team will have seen this before. Ultimately, your daughter is going to have to get used to the different ways secondary schools work. Keeping her off school, is definitely not the way to go. She'll never settle then, and you'll end up with bigger problems. A friend of mine, her son took over 6 months before he started to settle, and probably closer to the school year before he felt more at ease at his secondary school.

This is why I sent my DD to a private secondary (and now live on the breadline to afford it thanks to all those who cheered in the VAT). Had I not, she would now have not been in school at all and would no doubt have not achieved her potential in life. She is a good girl, scared of getting into trouble, does well with her work.

she now goes to a school where every teacher knows every pupil. They know the ones that piss around and need a stricter approach. They are careful with children like my DD. If anyone forgets a book, there’s just a reminder. If they keep doing it then yes there is a punishment. The week before she started, the head of SEN contacted me to put in place support strategies around her (undiagnosed) anxiety. She has a special eraser she can put on her desk if she is feeling anxious so the teacher knows. They are so kind to her.

Each year group has their own physical house on site where they go before/after school, breaks and lunch. Every house has a housemistress, a deputy and matron who look after them like parents. Any sadness, worry, illness is dealt with. Bullying is stopped in its tracked as the school can expel without answering to anyone. It has been the making of my daughter and, rather than making her have no resilience, it’s actually increased it as it’s increased her confidence. So it’s rubbish that children have to live in fear to get resilience.

I’m just sad this isn’t the norm for every child.

Bennett Memorial School is like this and it’s so miserable for the majority of the pupils. I think it’s worse for concientious children as they waste so much energy worrying about making a mistake. I would look at other schools before anxiety develops - from friends’ experiences, once school anxiety has developed, it’s extremely difficult to get back to normal.

Yes which is what we should be teaching our children not resilience at all costs

the OP really needs a frank chat with her daughter and then raise what is needed at to help

I would take her to the girls school for a look see. I'm presuming it's a smaller one.

I would have wilted under such a strict regime. It's very draconian to a naturally well behaved child .

In my opinion (as a teacher), you need to go above the form tutor. Most form tutors will be "just" classroom teachers, and we don't get much of a say in the behaviour policy and can even be put under pressure if we don't enforce it. The form tutor also can't comment on what happens in individual lessons- that isn't their place.

A lot of MATs have gone down this route, because having cookie cutter lessons, and a strict behaviour policy with no deviations supports having more inexperienced, cheaper staff. Also, having strict rules around equipment means the school doesn't have to supply pens/rulers/pencils etc- which often get lost/broken. I'm not supporting these policies, but they will have come from way higher than the form tutor.

I would definitely speak to the head of year, or even the member of SLT responsible for behaviour, rather than the form tutor. If your daughter is afraid of her HoY, that really isn't good, and it would actually be good for them to know this, so they can try and form that relationship instead.

I'd definitely look around other schools, but you may find a lot of them are similar, especially if they are run by the same MAT. If you can find a local school with spaces that isn't like this, then I'd definitely seriously consider moving. The school is, unfortunately, very likely to change.