Daughter hating year 7

[AllGonePeteTong1]

DD has been increasingly withdrawn the last few months. I had put it down to hormones but she broke down tonight and confided in me how much she hates her new secondary school. It's the local comp that is very well regarded, ofsted outstanding, well behaved kids in an affluent area. All her friends have gone to the school with her so all should be fine.

But things haven't been great from the start. She has found it incredibly strict, with detentions given out for the most minor offences (eg forgetting a book). She doesn't like a single one of her teachers because 'they're always shouting or tellling us off.'

She's also struggling a bit with the work, mainly because she says she finds it so boring (despite being a very engaged and good student at junior school). I also think the constant underlying stress she feels isn't conducive to learning. There is no bullying or anything like that - she's assured me on that.

I'm not sure what to do. She's started saying she doesn't want to go to school and even said she'd like to go to another one. She is adamant that I can't speak to her teachers about it and 'make a fuss'. She made me promise I wouldn't say anything.

Has anyone been in this situation and if so how did you handle in? Any teachers that can help advise on the right approach to take (potentially) with the school?

I hate seeing my previously happy, engaged girl so miserable 😞

Whilst there is a logic to Year 7 being given a fair degree of strictness to get them to adapt to the rules and ways of secondary - this school sounds to be one of those which is OTT strict. If it were me, I would discuss the option of moving and if my child agreed, start the ball rolling looking into other schools. I am not at all keen on all girls schools in general, but if that was the only alternative, I would consider it in this sort of situation. Best of luck.

The posts about dd practicing harder at netball are just ridiculous. These are y7 girls who just want some sport. Most schools can rotate teams when too many volunteer. How can a child do extra netball sessions to improve? It’s much better to have a sport for all mentality in a school and keep all dc interested.

Much empathy OP!

It's so painful knowing what to do in this position. The two Secondary schools I know well were/are very strict on year 7 - from what I understand this is so the children get into good habits to allow the group to learn in a calm environment. Nobody wants their kids in a classroom where the teacher is just doing crowd control.

I think if it was your first choice and she has good friends I would stick at it and maybe support her learning and work on her resilience. She may find by year 8 things have settled, she's grown in confidence and the work is engaging her more.

My experience is that we get a limited view from our kids, it's important but it's often not the whole picture.

Sometimes people move their kids and it's worse - the fact that it's a solid school and she has friends is so important.

I have recently joined the PTA at DD's secondary and it's a huge revelation. You see the school from a different aspect. You can ask advice from parents of older kids. You can (in moderation) ask advice from teachers who are more 'off duty' and are so appreciative of parental support.

My s moved my niece from a great school to a less ideal school because she missed her friends and my niece still slightly regrets it. She says she'd rather have better exam results.

I think sometimes we have to accept our kids will struggle sometimes but that doesn't mean we necessarily need to change their environment.

Having a good bunch of friends is good dust archer age.

But I know it's hell when we feel our kids are not thriving. Sometimes though we need maybe to learn not to always intervene. But this is just my experience - it may not be of use to you.

But try to have a low key pastoral appointment if you can. Approaching the school in a positive way. I always ask for 'advice' when I have an issue.

All the best

I second this, my daughter loves her school now but she struggled that first year until roughly around Easter. It's all a big change but just comfort her, listen to her and try to keep her spirits up

Thank you for this, this is sound advice

There has been a real shift in recent years to this no tolerance style discipline. It’s filtered over from America. I’m a Secondary School teacher- been doing it 30 years and hate everything about it. I’d never teach in a school like that. Teachers generally have very little autonomy over content and delivery of curriculum so lessons are identikit and dull. The English lessons want to make me weep. Find another school. I’d investigate the girls’ school you mentioned.

work on her resilience.

This just makes my heart sink. What an attitude to have towards children.

I take that to mean help her understand that sometimes things don't go well, but it's not the end of the world. Not that she has to struggle through everything without complaint.
My DD's high school were very keen on promoting the 'growth mindset' to students. This is a healthier way to look at resilience. Bright, conscientious, anxious pupils struggle with perfectionism and need to learn how to 'fail'.

The transition from Y6 to Y7 is a tough one. They go from being a big fish in a small pond to being very much bottom of the pile.

I’m a teacher myself and a lot of our focus is on Y11, especially as the year goes on.

You mention the school is “strict” - does this mean the behaviour in class is excellent? Sometimes schools that are less strict have disruption after disruption and learning is constantly interrupted as the students rule the roost.

I would say definitely speak to her head of year. A good school will be supportive and understanding!

A good school would be more flexible and understand some dc don’t need this ethos in the first place.

Also, of course all dc don’t end up being at the bottom of the pile! Some are in the many netball teams. Some are shining in the tests. Some will fit in straightaway. It doesn’t take all dc a year to fit in. Others are just not in the right school. No harm looking at others.

Mine too; I would not have said this when my eldest was in year 7!

I have just watched my ds start as a teacher in a big city secondary school; I look back now at all the times he struggled in life and they made him able to withstand the inevitable challenges of life.

I feel as if I eventually found a middle way between apron-strings/overprotection and full on Gordonstoun style brutality!

Every child is particular and responds uniquely to different settings. I think if we always let the child choose aren't we teaching them that difficult things can be avoided?

I would have loved to send my kids to a progressive loving warm nurturing growth mindset school - but we couldn't afford private, and the local state schools were not that kind of gentle.

Having said that, I have found that a school becomes much less forbidding and monolithic once you build relationships with some staff. It changes everything.

I hated every minute of the times when my kids were suffering at school or in a challenging situation, but I now see how it was right not to try to always step in and 'rescue' them when things get hard. I watch them now and they are relatively happy and well adjusted and ready for age appropriate life challenges.

Not that you have to agree with me; it's just it's a life lesson I learned slowly and painfully and also my big sister was always telling me that kids need some struggle in order to keep them for real life.

Well, what else should we do?

We can't all be on the team, we can't all win the race. If a child can't cope with minor disappointment because we've raised them to think they could and should win everything then we're doing them a disservice.

It's ok to lose and it's okay to teach them to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and try again.

It's not like we're saying ... Beat them harder ...or go and train 5hrs a day. Just learn to accept things, and move on, learn from it and build up your resilience to cope with minor issues and disappointment.

Others we end up with children who grow into teenagers and young adults who get overly anxious about entering exams, who can't ring up to find information out, who will complain about unfairness that they didn't get the job, or dwell in dispair when they don't get into their desired university etc.

You are allowed to raise resilient children who can take small problems in their stride.

Of course life can be tough and we need to help children deal with the vicissitudes - but we need to start by asking whether these challenges are themselves reasonable in the first place.

Some of the rules in secondary schools are not reasonable at all and interfere with education and indeed with humanity. And they teach a mindset that expects rules to be ridiculous and adults to behave in ridiculous ways to enforce them.

How does all this teach respect for co-operation and the need for rules? How does it increase a child's happiness and enthusiasm for education?

We should not each children to resilient to situations that need challenging. We are teaching them to suck it up regardless, rather than the sort of values that are able to judge what makes sense and what does not.

How do these schools think their attitudes are encouraging children to value and enjoy their education? - which is after all their raison d'etre?

Moving school can build resilience not just sticking it out somewhere you have to. It's quite brave to make a change.
Adapting to new routines, new teachers and classes and the big one of making new friends and maintaining old friendships. Learning that if you are deeply unhappy, things can change, you're being listened to and things can get better.

I wouldn't call it resilience personally, more like teaching coping strategies. When something isn't right but can't be changed you have to try and cope in the least harmful way or find ways to mitigate it.

But should we be accepting this wholly unsatisfactory on behalf of our children and asking them to find coping strategies?

I am not sure this is a good preparation for the adult world.

These boards are full of parents unhappy about unreasonable rules all the time - not being allowed to have a pee, or take off a jacket when it is sweating hot for example. Is that what happens at work? - not at anywhere I have worked for sure.

We are teaching them to not discriminate, which is something they need to learn; and to resent school - what is the point of that?

I can only speak from my own experience.

I had a fairly grim education and did poorly at school. I eventually got to uni. I have had a wide range of jobs.
I have been treated well and badly.
Most of these dynamics almost certainly had an element from both sides. I was not always perfect, my bosses were not always perfect.

I feel as if schools need to find a way to operate which suits the largest percentage of the school community.

Teachers needs the kids quiet and compliant with such big classes.

We can't create perfect schools and even the perfect don't suit all kids.

I think school can be a bit strict and home can be fun. They have to learn how to deal with imperfect environments; particularly as our children are not perfect.

They need to learn to deal with the world as it is not as we wish it were.

What I mean is we cannot curate a life for them as it has to be their life. So if we intervene too much then they don't learn that things can get better,

I've seen my kids learn a huge amount from very grim situations. I think now that I would haven been wrong to intervene in most of them.

I think it's beyond parents as individuals to try and change the system here. Personally I really don't want to send mine to a typical secondary school but this is what we have.

It’s resulting in huge numbers being home educated and not fitting in. I’m so lucky my DDs went to schools that had no issues with pupils. Friendly supportive schools. I truly feel for pleasant dc in these military academies. It’s educating dc in subjects but not for life.

However it’s a joke about large classes now! At my primary we had 40 in the class. At secondary 30 in the class. That’s been the case in secondary for decades. I definitely think dc were better behaved then. Not because schools were strict. It was parents who were strict!

Maybe because it's not wholly unsatisfactory? Or at least the results are not.
My kids spent their primary years waiting around whilst staff dealt with disruptive behaviour. They were sick of it long before secondary and, whilst they thought the rules could be irksome sometimes, they appreciated the calm atmosphere where teachers could teach and kids could learn, and, as they got older, where rules could be relaxed because expectations were clear and students knew not to take the piss.

And yes, in some jobs uniform or ppe can't just be taken off because you feel a bit hot.

@Porcuporpoise Depends if you think results is the only reason for being at school and that blind obedience is what you want from your dc. I agree a school that is not supporting teachers dealing with disruptive behaviour is not acceptable but schools are there for all dc and making them abide by petty rules is not a reflection on society. It instils fear and discipline via punishment for minor transgressions makes some dc very unhappy. Most of us would never encounter this outside military service. I would not want this for my dc at 11. It’s ok if you actively choose one of these schools but if it’s your only school and you don’t have another one, it truly sucks.

@TizerorFizz I don't know any workplace where low level disruption, chronic lateness or losing track of the equipment you need are tolerated let alone welcomed.
My workplace is pretty relaxed in many ways but we don't tolerate dicking about and not having the required ppe or ignoring safety protocols is a straight to disciplinary offence.

Except that often things can be changed; but to change them you have to challenge the unreasonable rules and those who enforce them, whether through complaints to governors, contacting media, mobilizing parents etc.

All of these methods, incidentally, mirror the ways that change is achieved in a democratic society. Students should know when and how to deploy them against injustice. It is a critical part of their education as citizens. There are far too many people on this site who think that the purpose of education is to teach children to tolerate abuse from authority figures.

Granted, “obedience schools” do exist, but they are for dogs, not people.

From my perspective at least I don't expect any drastic changes by the time my DC reach this age. I've been trying to face up to the reality that I may have to send my children into this environment and what to do for the best.

I do think in the meantime we should be challenging this and asking questions about whether this is the right way to educate young people. I don't think that's enough when your kids are currently in the system. You have to just get them through it.