Page 12 | DS failed 11+ very upset, angry and sad

pocketpairs · 21/10/2024 18:56

BeJollyNewt · 21/10/2024 14:21

There should be Olympic category for running with short legs too why not ? :))

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I think the poster is confused. You have many short and long distance runners with short legs (Andre Cason, Haile haile gebrselassie, etc..)

Pillpusher · 21/10/2024 21:04

Dear OP,

My son did not make it through 11plus selection either. Missed cutoff of 200 by 4 points. 1900 students did not get past cut-off either. My hsuband worked very hard with my DS. Had some external tuition too. But it sadly was still not enough.

We are gutted, but could not show this to our son, to avoid making him look like he let us down. Local comprehensives are are not brillaint Attainment scores of 45%. But than you look closely many grammar schools dont have full intake assessed. In my local, intake is 180 but last few assessments only involved approx. 145. Which might make attainment levels looks better. So if he had just made through and was in lower sub-set, he likely might be one of those to drop-off or struggle for sure.

Without my DH efforts he was unlikely to even come close. So we have now accepted the fact he will be top of comprehensive cohort. He is currently in top 10% in year 6.

Just out of interest, neither me or my DH were A* students. We still managed good healthcare degrees. We have now taken consious decision to educate him in local comprehensive and support him with tuitons wherever needed. Lots and lots of trips planned with family with Florida to watch rocket launch.My DH has developed Rheumatic disorder and also our confidence is dented a bit, so cannot risk 000s of pounds on private education.

The doom and disappointment is done with over the weekend. Family holiday next week, where DS will be treated as "fav child". Looking back, perhaps its what we wanted rather than what he was naturally capable of.

Was it wasted time and effort, ofcourse not. In hindsight, it was worth a shot. Everything happens for reason. Onwards and upwards from here on.

pocketpairs · 21/10/2024 22:07

Pillpusher · 21/10/2024 21:04

Dear OP,

My son did not make it through 11plus selection either. Missed cutoff of 200 by 4 points. 1900 students did not get past cut-off either. My hsuband worked very hard with my DS. Had some external tuition too. But it sadly was still not enough.

We are gutted, but could not show this to our son, to avoid making him look like he let us down. Local comprehensives are are not brillaint Attainment scores of 45%. But than you look closely many grammar schools dont have full intake assessed. In my local, intake is 180 but last few assessments only involved approx. 145. Which might make attainment levels looks better. So if he had just made through and was in lower sub-set, he likely might be one of those to drop-off or struggle for sure.

Without my DH efforts he was unlikely to even come close. So we have now accepted the fact he will be top of comprehensive cohort. He is currently in top 10% in year 6.

Just out of interest, neither me or my DH were A* students. We still managed good healthcare degrees. We have now taken consious decision to educate him in local comprehensive and support him with tuitons wherever needed. Lots and lots of trips planned with family with Florida to watch rocket launch.My DH has developed Rheumatic disorder and also our confidence is dented a bit, so cannot risk 000s of pounds on private education.

The doom and disappointment is done with over the weekend. Family holiday next week, where DS will be treated as "fav child". Looking back, perhaps its what we wanted rather than what he was naturally capable of.

Was it wasted time and effort, ofcourse not. In hindsight, it was worth a shot. Everything happens for reason. Onwards and upwards from here on.

Edited

Very thought provoking msg. All the best for the future. :)

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 00:06

Araminta1003 · 21/10/2024 15:08

The LNAT is “a test of your verbal reasoning skills, a test of your ability to understand and interpret information, a test of your inductive and deductive reasoning abilities, a test of your ability to analyse information and draw conclusions.”

“The LNAT is NOT an intelligence test and is NOT a test of your knowledge of Law.”

From their website.

DD got 100 per cent in 11 plus verbal reasoning and English and was a top scorer in LNAT. Also has strong numerical and musical skills. Not necessarily strong natural NVR, although can practise it to improve speed. These things are linked.

Interestingly, the job aptitude tests have said that NVR is only top “20%” so career in law would be easier than a career in Science. However, DD is passionate about Science so of course this can be ignored in theory and she would have made an equally good doctor, for example. Because personality and passion comes into it as well.

https://lnat.ac.uk/how-to-prepare/practice-test/

I'm sure anyone can figure out for themselves if any similarities.. between apples and rockets...

Practice tests | LNAT

https://lnat.ac.uk/how-to-prepare/practice-test

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 00:18

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 00:06

https://lnat.ac.uk/how-to-prepare/practice-test/

I'm sure anyone can figure out for themselves if any similarities.. between apples and rockets...

Show quote history

But they ARE very similar... 🤷‍♀️ French text is slightly more difficult than your previous example of LNAT but the principle is the same so not apples and rockets, rather Gala and Cox.

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 00:34

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 00:18

But they ARE very similar... 🤷‍♀️ French text is slightly more difficult than your previous example of LNAT but the principle is the same so not apples and rockets, rather Gala and Cox.

Edited

Show quote history

Similar in what sense? Ever seen an 11+ VR paper with this mountain of passages to read and writing to do? They’re fundamentally different exams with different contents and distinct purpose.

Original poster

Ouchh1 · 22/10/2024 06:10

Londonmummy66 · 21/10/2024 16:42

Definitely follow up on the SEN issues - we didn't find out until she was 15 that DD (despite having an NHS diagnosis of dyspraxia) is unable to grasp the meaning of something she reads to herself - she needs to read it out loud to remember what it says. Fortunately it was just in time to get her a private room for her GCSEs but it would have made her school life easier if we had known sooner.

Did you go through your school for the diagnosis or the private route? Thanks

OP posts:

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 09:23

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 00:34

Similar in what sense? Ever seen an 11+ VR paper with this mountain of passages to read and writing to do? They’re fundamentally different exams with different contents and distinct purpose.

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Of course I have. Here is just a quick google search https://intuitiveacademy.co.uk/henrietta-barnett-school-11-plus/
DD did similar tasks on Atom.

Sorry you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

Henrietta Barnett School 11 plus - Intuitive Academy

The Henrietta Barnett School (HBS) is a prestigious all-girls grammar school with academy status, located in the picturesque Hampstead Garden Suburb of

https://intuitiveacademy.co.uk/henrietta-barnett-school-11-plus

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 09:33

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 09:23

Of course I have. Here is just a quick google search https://intuitiveacademy.co.uk/henrietta-barnett-school-11-plus/
DD did similar tasks on Atom.

Sorry you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

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Henrietta Barnett uses the GL format for its VR test, which means you won't find any lengthy passages to read for the VR paper

https://11plus.gl-assessment.co.uk/free-materials/

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 09:50

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 09:33

Henrietta Barnett uses the GL format for its VR test, which means you won't find any lengthy passages to read for the VR paper

https://11plus.gl-assessment.co.uk/free-materials/

Edited

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Do you understand the difference between VR and comprehension?

My daughter sat for HBS but Mumsnet knows better of course.

fashionqueen0123 · 22/10/2024 09:55

Pillpusher · 21/10/2024 21:04

Dear OP,

My son did not make it through 11plus selection either. Missed cutoff of 200 by 4 points. 1900 students did not get past cut-off either. My hsuband worked very hard with my DS. Had some external tuition too. But it sadly was still not enough.

We are gutted, but could not show this to our son, to avoid making him look like he let us down. Local comprehensives are are not brillaint Attainment scores of 45%. But than you look closely many grammar schools dont have full intake assessed. In my local, intake is 180 but last few assessments only involved approx. 145. Which might make attainment levels looks better. So if he had just made through and was in lower sub-set, he likely might be one of those to drop-off or struggle for sure.

Without my DH efforts he was unlikely to even come close. So we have now accepted the fact he will be top of comprehensive cohort. He is currently in top 10% in year 6.

Just out of interest, neither me or my DH were A* students. We still managed good healthcare degrees. We have now taken consious decision to educate him in local comprehensive and support him with tuitons wherever needed. Lots and lots of trips planned with family with Florida to watch rocket launch.My DH has developed Rheumatic disorder and also our confidence is dented a bit, so cannot risk 000s of pounds on private education.

The doom and disappointment is done with over the weekend. Family holiday next week, where DS will be treated as "fav child". Looking back, perhaps its what we wanted rather than what he was naturally capable of.

Was it wasted time and effort, ofcourse not. In hindsight, it was worth a shot. Everything happens for reason. Onwards and upwards from here on.

Edited

Being in a top set at secondary will be far better than bottom in a grammar! Sounds like a good plan

Overturnedmum · 22/10/2024 10:03

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 09:50

Do you understand the difference between VR and comprehension?

My daughter sat for HBS but Mumsnet knows better of course.

Show quote history

Clearly, anyone in the earlier thread drawing similarities between the 11+ VR test and the LNAT's verbal reasoning must be missing a key difference.

Henrietta Barnett uses GL for its VR test, which means there are no lengthy passages. Your daughter, having sat HBS, must surely know the difference between the VR paper and an English comprehension paper it uses. The VR paper contains no long paragraphs to wade through.

And speaking of English comprehension, the 11+ exam is nothing like the LNAT's argumentative passage reading. For the 11+ English comprehension paper, the focus is typically on understanding the text, identifying literary devices, explaining vocabulary, look at spell and grammars, and analyzing characters' feelings. It is more like an easier version of GCSE English paper.

The LNAT, however, does not ask any of these questions. Instead, it assesses the ability to evaluate arguments and reason logically based on factual information presented in the passages. Most of the passage LNAT uses are news paper articles.

It seems that you would need to improve your English comprehension skill.

Runninglateagaintoday · 22/10/2024 10:12

@Overturnedmum
@Ubertomusic
I’m not sure how all this comparison to, and arguments about, the LNAT is helping OP…

Ubertomusic · 22/10/2024 10:50

Runninglateagaintoday · 22/10/2024 10:12

@Overturnedmum
@Ubertomusic
I’m not sure how all this comparison to, and arguments about, the LNAT is helping OP…

There are 288 posts on the thread, I'm sure ppl
offered lots of advice already.
Tutor is a fraud but it cannot be helped now.
EdPsy assessment is an obvious next step. Having 121 tuition for more than 18 month and getting a very low score is a clear indicator.

TumbledTussocks · 22/10/2024 11:44

HRTFT

Agree with suggestions that spanking to sen co and getting an ed psych appointment would be best.

Love the reminders that low in the 11+ isn't the same as low nationwide.

I'd also try to emphasise how great it is that this is being picked up now (it's a shame the tutor or school didn't pick it up sooner but at least it is in time for secondary.)

One of my kids loves maths the other has extra time and questions read out - which makes a huge difference to their results.

With the right understanding of their processing and support they can improve in their own way. Learning to learn and overcome issues can also be a blessing. The kids who find school easy academically frequently struggle at uni / career time as they've never been challenged before. It's a vital skill set.

How wonderful that he chose to do the 11+ despite struggling and taking on the tuition. That shows a brilliant mindset, and without that any processing difficulties could have gone overlooked much longer. Obviously processing the shock of a low result will take time but there's so much for him to be proud of and build on in all of that. Good luck!

Original poster

Ouchh1 · 22/10/2024 11:53

Thanks for everyone's kind words and encouragement.

I didn't tell him his score, as I was worried he would compare his results with others. I told him to not ask or tell re results.
He seemed fine, no tears, which was great.

The next challenge is getting him all of the help he needs.
Thanks again

OP posts:

Londonmummy66 · 22/10/2024 14:53

@Ouchh1 we had to go private for EdPsych in the end as in NHS she was assessed by an OT who was really only interested in the physical side of the dyspraxia and actually seemed pretty unaware of the way it affects the way they think. (School SENCO was equally useless) It would be worth buying one of the books by Professor Amanda Kirby - usually some kicking around on the secondhand sites for less than £5. Read one and if they sound like you son take the evidence to the SENCO and ask for an EdPsych report but say you want an EdPsych who deals with SEN generally and not just dylexia.

Original poster

Ouchh1 · 22/10/2024 14:55

@Londonmummy66 thanks so much. I have sent a PM - please feel free to ignore.

OP posts:

NotbloodyGivingupYet · 22/10/2024 18:04

Good luck OP

Herewegoagain2 · 22/10/2024 21:07

It must be very tough for all these kids going through a years worth of tutoring to pass a test to get into a school. Wish they would just scrap these last remaining grammar schools. Causes too much divisiveness and pressure.

Frontedadverbials · 22/10/2024 21:25

Overturnedmum · 21/10/2024 13:50

Clearly, whoever said this had no clue about the vast difference between the LNAT exam and the 11+ VR.

The LNAT demands deep, analytical reasoning and composition skills, while the VR test hinges on more straightforward linguistic and logical skills.

LNAT Example:
Read the following passage:
"The right to freedom of speech is fundamental to democracy. However, this right is not absolute and can be restricted in cases of hate speech. Critics argue that limiting speech can lead to a slippery slope where more and more expressions are curtailed, undermining the essence of free speech."
Question:
Why do critics oppose restrictions on speech?

A) They believe all speech should be restricted.
B) They fear it could lead to more limitations on free speech.
C) They think democracy should have no boundaries.
D) They agree with restrictions on hate speech.

11+ VR Example:
Question:
Find the missing word in the following sequence:
cat, dog, _, fish
Options:

A) mouse
B) bird
C) elephant
D) snake

Edited

Show quote history

What is the answer to the 11+ question?

Runninglateagaintoday · 22/10/2024 21:57

@Frontedadverbials
Elephant (animal names start with c, d, e and f then).

Araminta1003 · 23/10/2024 07:11

Could have also been first two animals have 3 letters, next two animals four, then 5 etc - which would have made it “fish”. So not a very good question, in my opinion.

PatientVesta · 23/10/2024 11:55

Pillpusher · 21/10/2024 21:04

Dear OP,

My son did not make it through 11plus selection either. Missed cutoff of 200 by 4 points. 1900 students did not get past cut-off either. My hsuband worked very hard with my DS. Had some external tuition too. But it sadly was still not enough.

We are gutted, but could not show this to our son, to avoid making him look like he let us down. Local comprehensives are are not brillaint Attainment scores of 45%. But than you look closely many grammar schools dont have full intake assessed. In my local, intake is 180 but last few assessments only involved approx. 145. Which might make attainment levels looks better. So if he had just made through and was in lower sub-set, he likely might be one of those to drop-off or struggle for sure.

Without my DH efforts he was unlikely to even come close. So we have now accepted the fact he will be top of comprehensive cohort. He is currently in top 10% in year 6.

Just out of interest, neither me or my DH were A* students. We still managed good healthcare degrees. We have now taken consious decision to educate him in local comprehensive and support him with tuitons wherever needed. Lots and lots of trips planned with family with Florida to watch rocket launch.My DH has developed Rheumatic disorder and also our confidence is dented a bit, so cannot risk 000s of pounds on private education.

The doom and disappointment is done with over the weekend. Family holiday next week, where DS will be treated as "fav child". Looking back, perhaps its what we wanted rather than what he was naturally capable of.

Was it wasted time and effort, ofcourse not. In hindsight, it was worth a shot. Everything happens for reason. Onwards and upwards from here on.

Edited

This is such wonderful advice.

I'm extremely anxious waiting for the result of the Wandsworth Test to see if my DD has a change on the selective school we want.

However, she now has a place in another school and I'm trying to tell myself that if she doesn't get into the other school, it was not meant to be and it wasn't the right school for her.

Sometimes we want these things even for pride and our own insecurities. A selective school does not suit everyone and sometimes the competition is very bad for children's mental health.

Our neighbours went to Oxford and Cambridge and we live next door to each other, so we ended up the same in the end!

Anywherebuthere · 23/10/2024 13:01

Ouchh1 · 18/10/2024 17:55

DS failed the 11 plus. He had been struggling for a while but wanted to continue like his friends, so we let him.

We weren’t expecting him to pass, and have been stressing to him that the exam isn’t important. But we are crushed at the result: he scored one of the lowest marks in the exam.

We were expecting a higher score given the effort he has put in.

He has worked hard over the past 1.5 years, study a little every day. He has had 121 tuition for over 18 months - including a separate English tutor since January, as English is an area he needed extra help with.

When I spoke to his English tutor this morning, she suggested he might have a mild learning disorder which has been masked from his teachers because of the study he has been doing for the 11 plus.

She said I should speak to the school’s SEN and ask for an assessment. Is this the normal practice?

Although he can read fluently, he doesn’t seem to grasp the text. This is why we hired an English tutor, and she assured me he was making steady progress.

I feel so sorry for him. He is going to be so upset when he finds out. I am holding off telling g him until Sunday.

I am furious with myself - I should never have tried to get him to do the 11+.

What we do now? I am starting to worry about his overall ability and how he will cope at secondary school.

I hope your son has got past any disappointment and upset by now.

I havnt read the whole thread but why on earth did the tutor not say anything until that morning? Is she trying to 'blame' his score on him rather than her possible inadequate tutoring?

I would not be happy with this tutor and would give reviews accordingly. Totally wrong to fleece students/parents but not mention any concerns until it's the end.