DS failed 11+ very upset, angry and sad

[Ouchh1]

DS failed the 11 plus. He had been struggling for a while but wanted to continue like his friends, so we let him.

We weren’t expecting him to pass, and have been stressing to him that the exam isn’t important. But we are crushed at the result: he scored one of the lowest marks in the exam.

We were expecting a higher score given the effort he has put in.

He has worked hard over the past 1.5 years, study a little every day. He has had 121 tuition for over 18 months - including a separate English tutor since January, as English is an area he needed extra help with.

When I spoke to his English tutor this morning, she suggested he might have a mild learning disorder which has been masked from his teachers because of the study he has been doing for the 11 plus.

She said I should speak to the school’s SEN and ask for an assessment. Is this the normal practice?

Although he can read fluently, he doesn’t seem to grasp the text. This is why we hired an English tutor, and she assured me he was making steady progress.

I feel so sorry for him. He is going to be so upset when he finds out. I am holding off telling g him until Sunday.

I am furious with myself - I should never have tried to get him to do the 11+.

What we do now? I am starting to worry about his overall ability and how he will cope at secondary school.

I don't think you could get a grammar place with just reading - DD is a bookworm, has been reading non-stop since 4, and books far above expected reading age. We did zero prep as I've never considered a grammar school for her, but had to register last minute because of VAT. She did 5 mock tests on Atom and sat for Henrietta - of course she didn't get through. Her comprehension on Atom was very high, but NVR was average and reading cannot really help with this.

Remembering the bright young things I knew 15 or more years ago who had a crack at Tiffin, so many advanced, avid and fluent early readers who had no tutoring didn't get in. The ones who did had oodles of tuition, some from year 4. Yes there'll always be outraged outliers who claim to have done it without. But among those 'failures' who ended up at the likes of Teddington, were eventual Cambridge, Bristol and Durham grads. So all was well thankfully for those lovely children.

I don't want to take your dc example, but Isn't it strange that who has very good comprehensive skills can not handle non-verbal that easily ? kids who read widely for pleasure and curiosity doesn't need non-verbal practice or exam technic practice separately in that case.

It's not strange at all - NVR is designed to test pattern recognition, it has nothing to do with comprehension of words, sentences etc. That's exactly why it's called non-verbal.

Tutoring can improve NVR only by a few points - your brain has to work in a certain way to be good at NVR. My autistic DC1 does NVR in 30% of time and finds it very easy. He got top scores for grammar with zero prep. Again, this has nothing to do with reading.

Practicing NVR can significantly improve performance. The more you practice, the better you become at recognizing patterns, understanding abstract question patterns, and solving problems quickly. In a way, similar to classical conditioning involves learning through repeated associations, and practicing NVR questions repeatedly helps the brain recognize patterns and improve speeds.

However this skillet is of little use outside for the sake of NVR exam really.

Non-verbal should be alot easier fo who can comprehend, infer the text, words, sentences in well rounded learning in my opinion. That is why Autistic kids must be showing the same, they need inclusive cohort / or pareents to develop verbal.

It looks like you're confusing it with VR.

You can train practically everything, but some things only to a certain point. You will never become an Olympic runner if you have short legs.

It is of course possible to teach the rules of analysing matrices but it's going to be verbal reasoning in your head vs. an instant reaction of an autistic brain for which it's just obvious the first millisecond.

Yes, tutoring for this has no use IRL beyond 11+.

The 11+ exam isn't at Olympic level, not even at Olympic level for a 10-year-old child, whose leg muscles haven't fully developed yet. Even short leg grow differently for different kids at that stage.

There are psychometric and job aptitude tests that test NVR including spatial reasoning and technical ability.

https://lnat.ac.uk/ - LNAT for law, it will retest verbal reasoning. If you have a DC who got 100 per cent in verbal reasoning at 11 plus with not much practice, you will also know they are very likely to pass LNAT and make a good lawyer.

Clearly, whoever said this had no clue about the vast difference between the LNAT exam and the 11+ VR.

The LNAT demands deep, analytical reasoning and composition skills, while the VR test hinges on more straightforward linguistic and logical skills.

LNAT Example:
Read the following passage:
"The right to freedom of speech is fundamental to democracy. However, this right is not absolute and can be restricted in cases of hate speech. Critics argue that limiting speech can lead to a slippery slope where more and more expressions are curtailed, undermining the essence of free speech."
Question:
Why do critics oppose restrictions on speech?

• A) They believe all speech should be restricted.
• B) They fear it could lead to more limitations on free speech.
• C) They think democracy should have no boundaries.
• D) They agree with restrictions on hate speech.

11+ VR Example:
Question:
Find the missing word in the following sequence:
cat, dog, _, fish
Options:

• A) mouse
• B) bird
• C) elephant
• D) snake

@Overturnedmum - you have just deliberately quoted one bit of the LNAT. Kids who excel at VR at 10, typically excel at VR at 16 and 18 too. It really is not a controversial thing to say.
Plenty of kids do not sit VR at 10/11 - that is a separate issue.

I haven't even mentioned the essay writing part of the LNAT either.

Why

There should be Olympic category for running with short legs too why not ? :))

How common is that these days? I've never had them in IT, is that for accounting?

There won't be much workforce left soon so HR with their crazy ideas will become obsolete.

God forbid! 😂

It was just a simple illustration of my point that you can improve anything with training but up to a certain level.

LNAT example is a typical comprehension question from 11+ test.
Comprehension, not VR.

I was simply pointing out that extensive practice to an extreme level isn't necessary to gain a significant advantage, as it completely undermines the purpose of the 11+ test.

I don’t think parents worry too much about ‘the purpose of the test’. It’s all about trying to help their DC get into a good school. The 11+ exam is not a level playing field. People do what they can to try help their children.

Edited to say that I think it’s too much pressure too young personally. There’s no 11+ where I am (not UK) and I’m glad of that. But I don’t blame people for trying to make the system they have work for them.

The LNAT is “a test of your verbal reasoning skills, a test of your ability to understand and interpret information, a test of your inductive and deductive reasoning abilities, a test of your ability to analyse information and draw conclusions.”

“The LNAT is NOT an intelligence test and is NOT a test of your knowledge of Law.”

From their website.

DD got 100 per cent in 11 plus verbal reasoning and English and was a top scorer in LNAT. Also has strong numerical and musical skills. Not necessarily strong natural NVR, although can practise it to improve speed. These things are linked.

Interestingly, the job aptitude tests have said that NVR is only top “20%” so career in law would be easier than a career in Science. However, DD is passionate about Science so of course this can be ignored in theory and she would have made an equally good doctor, for example. Because personality and passion comes into it as well.

Definitely follow up on the SEN issues - we didn't find out until she was 15 that DD (despite having an NHS diagnosis of dyspraxia) is unable to grasp the meaning of something she reads to herself - she needs to read it out loud to remember what it says. Fortunately it was just in time to get her a private room for her GCSEs but it would have made her school life easier if we had known sooner.

Wonderful 😀