VAT and Bursary impact

[tam255]

For some parents in London on a reasonable income who can’t afford to buy in the catchment of a good/ outstanding school, sending to a private school with partial fee assistance/ bursary is the next best option.

Often these big private schools in London in fact often support the state sector, local schools in their area with use of facilities, pools, drama studios etc and are very generous indeed even with teaching staff, Saturday schools etc supporting local schools. This important fact just seems to be forgotten.

As for the student intake, in fact in London most of the private schools have more diversity than the superselective Grammar schools!! Getting a place into a superselective Grammar school for a child in London requires deep pockets. A bright child who cannot afford all the numerous tutors and mock classes etc has no chance of getting through a superselective grammar school and if you can’t afford to live in the catchment area of a good comprehensive will miss out there too.

The reality is that, if a child on a part bursary is in primary school yes, you could have an option to move to a state school at some point. However if a child on a part bursary say is in private secondary school yr 9 onwards ( where subject choices etc have been made) it’s going to be impossible to just change them to the state sector till sixth form.

Yes, there will always be millionaires and billionaires in the private schools but also a lot of parents who are covered partially with bursary’s. With all the vat added it will impact the bursaries which is sad and more importantly the support the private schools offer to the local state schools around in their catchment.

This was my experience.

I looked at state and private schools for secondary for DD after a horrendous (state) primary.

None of the private schools would touch her with a barge pole.

Her lovely (state) secondary put in the support she needed from day 1, applied for an EHCP within the first term, and it was agreed within 6 months - the support for DD didn't change because it was there from the start, but it meant the school got the extra funding.

The whole 'but we neeeeeed private because of SEN' is largely BS.

We are rural so yes very different to urban schools. That's the point though, some people find it incredulous that there are areas and schools which don't match their own experiences.

You know you could move from your incredibly limiting location.

There’s no proper holiday childcare, no state school places, no music or drama or sports in state schools.

it is quite incredible!

Yes, and that is the reason why people who live in places like that should not say "there are no choirs or sport activities" because for majority of country it sounds odd. Places with the provision as in your area are not represneting the majorty of country. Trust me, in most schools in Uk there is a decent sport provision

We are surrounded by private schools, there has been no benefit to my state school DC, nothing at all.
i would also say the bursary children are of great benefit to the private system as they take the brightest and the best. For example, a private school winning a national sports competition (open to state and private), well yes, because they took those gifted children from the state system by giving them sports bursaries and put them all
together on one little school. Hardly an even playing field is it, and they get to boast about their generosity.
I feel for kids having to be pulled out, esp in y9 and up, but I just can’t agree with it.

SEN kids are much safer in state schools because there are rules in place of dos and don't. You can always complain to the council etc if something is wrong.
Unless it is a specialist private school the SEN kids are not protected this way at private. Private is driving for achievement and income.

And in our area there isn't so we took the decision to go indy to give her access to those because arts, music and sport are important to us.
This is the problem, there is massive inequality in the state system. Until that's rectified people won't stop choosing private.

No problem. Choose private if you can afford it.

But don't whinge about paying tax.

People are choosing private even in the counties where there are excellent state schools. Private schools invest a lot of money in marketing to maintain a delusion that the kids get some better provision than in local outstanding comprehensive. Fine with me for the parents who are billionaires, but I am sorry for those who make huge financial sacrifices to keep their kids in private because they swallowed the marketing nonsense

Especially that:
Most private schools are classified as charities and therefore benefit from tax breaks such as:

• 80 per cent reduction in business rates
• Gift aid
• No tax payable on ‘profits’
• No tax payable on their investment income
• Covid Loans

Most state schools (‘academies’ are treated differently from others) don’t benefit from these tax breaks for various reasons. Private schools can also benefit from being able to claim gift aid on any donations, as can the donor! While charities aren’t allowed to make a profit, for many private schools, in practice this means they can make a nice surplus which then goes towards a new swimming pool, theatre, upgraded science equipment and so on. They don’t pay tax on any of the surplus, even if it’s sitting in a bank account. And during the Covid-19 Pandemic, private schools were eligible to apply for loans with the government covering the first year’s interest payments, which state schools could not apply for. Just another example of private schools benefiting financially from their charitable status, while state schools missed out.

I'm in an urban area and the majority of holiday camps run 9am to 3pm as you've described. 8.30am early drop off possible, but all ending at 3pm. Its definitely the norm.

They are businesses.

A few years ago I was chatting to a colleague whose child was a toddler, and she mentioned putting him on the waiting list for prep school... I must have looked a bit surprised because she hastily said 'We would prefer not to go private, but unfortunately the local state schools are impossible '.

I didn't ask how many state primaries she had looked at in detail, or how she knew they wouldn't improve over the next 3 years before her child reached school age. It was obvious that state schools being 'impossible ' was an article of faith for her

I get the same impression from these threads.

Similar opportunities are available in most state schools. I don't know what you think happens in State schools but by and large, music teachers teach music and PE teachers teach PE. I teach maths, and have 3 students currently competing in different sports at international level, and around 30 out on a musical tour playing in different European cities. This is an average year. This is not even an unusual school in this respect.

Of course lots of elite sports men and women come from private schools. Because there is a correlation between the amount spent on education and the amount spent on extra curricular activities. Skiiing, tennis, etc, all very elitiest sport, and only for the rich. Look at more mainstream sport, like football, open to all income brackets, and you will find private schools very UNDER represented

Yes but registered as not for profit entity. Meaning all surplus money have to be reinvested in the school rather than any school owner profeteering from it. Many UK businesses run on a similar principle: all industry associations, institutes etc.

They are not even GOOD training hubs. State schools do it far better, and a far higher percentage are training hubs, and they are far far better to have on your CV once you have trained.

@Icepearl
Of course lots of elite sports men and women come from private schools. Because there is a correlation between the amount spent on education and the amount spent on extra curricular activities.

I also thought so but I happened to visit this year county Sports Day. Top of the sporty kids from the local state and private schools ( and here in Richmond we have many of those) were competing. And I cannot say that privates school kids were any better than those from state schools. It very much surprised me.

A massive proportion aren’t registered charities in the first place. Many are owned by Private Equity.

Read my previous comments. 2 sports clubs offered at local state. I have never said NO state schools offer sports etc, I said our local state secondary doesn't. The issue is lack of equality in the state sector which push parents into private. Getting a good state school is a postcode lottery
Elite sportspeople frequently come from private schools because they are there on sports scholarships

Some, not many

Shall we split hairs over the definition of some versus many?

It’s a sector that is consolidating under PE ownership.

@Boater Not what the internet says. Most are registered as not for profit or chairity entity

Well that's only going to intensify with VAT as truly indy schools will struggle to survive

It's not splitting hairs it's fact. Kindly show me the data that says MOST are run by private equity companies

hwww.oakleycapital.com/our-companies/thomas-s-london-day-schools<a class="break-all" href="https://www.cognita.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.cognita.com

https://dukeseducation.com

Broadly 50% of private schools are not charities.