VAT and Bursary impact

[tam255]

For some parents in London on a reasonable income who can’t afford to buy in the catchment of a good/ outstanding school, sending to a private school with partial fee assistance/ bursary is the next best option.

Often these big private schools in London in fact often support the state sector, local schools in their area with use of facilities, pools, drama studios etc and are very generous indeed even with teaching staff, Saturday schools etc supporting local schools. This important fact just seems to be forgotten.

As for the student intake, in fact in London most of the private schools have more diversity than the superselective Grammar schools!! Getting a place into a superselective Grammar school for a child in London requires deep pockets. A bright child who cannot afford all the numerous tutors and mock classes etc has no chance of getting through a superselective grammar school and if you can’t afford to live in the catchment area of a good comprehensive will miss out there too.

The reality is that, if a child on a part bursary is in primary school yes, you could have an option to move to a state school at some point. However if a child on a part bursary say is in private secondary school yr 9 onwards ( where subject choices etc have been made) it’s going to be impossible to just change them to the state sector till sixth form.

Yes, there will always be millionaires and billionaires in the private schools but also a lot of parents who are covered partially with bursary’s. With all the vat added it will impact the bursaries which is sad and more importantly the support the private schools offer to the local state schools around in their catchment.

The main problem you have is that if you transfer your kid to state it will be a random school where he/she gets the place. Unless you move house to the street just by the good school and wait and wait until the place appears and then your DC will be first for in year transfer.

I think placing kids in private is safe only for very very rich as small life changes will not affect for them affordability of a private school.
Stepping into the state school game is really challenging at a later stage than y7

My DD got a scholarship to a very good independent school years ago she's an adult now but this school was incredibly generous to several state schools in the area. They were allowed to have large drama productions at the independent school and staff there even helped with lighting, costumes etc. They also hosted several sporting events through the year for multiple local schools all at no cost. Without this I don't think my DD would have even wanted to try for the scholarship. We didn't have much money and only entered her because her form tutor had spoken to DD about it and convinced her it was a good opportunity and her other teachers advised we should. She got a 50 percent scholarship and topped up with a 50 percent bursary. I think with VAT added to fees many schools will have less money for these type of bursaries which is a huge shame.

I'd not be so certain the LA will cover the cost of independent school fees. I know a few DC stuck in state schools that can't adequately provide for them but they stay there anyway. LA argues they can be provided for there even when it's obvious the provision is inadequate. They are waiting g for special school provision but it's all full. Not enough special school provision in state sector. More special schools need to be built.

Respectfully, the main problem I have is a VAT bill for a service I don’t completely pay for. That I never budgeted to pay for, because a lovely Trust said they would never withdraw support. Until they did.

I know your post is meant kindly, and I agree with it entirely. It’s just this is our life. And our child’s life.

We actually live next door (literally) to DC school - we moved so we would save money on the commute. We can’t afford to move again TBH. Our local high school is closing wing by wing, it’s not very good, mostly empty and won’t take new pupils due to mothballing.

I don’t know what January will bring.

Respectfully, the main problem I have is a VAT bill for a service I don’t completely pay for.

Well, of course you are right. But I went one step ahead in case you will not be able to pay and decide on state option

@caringcarer We’ve got a pretty good shot, 3 autistic girls in DD’s year with EHCP’s. SEN barrister also seems to thinks so too. We know a couple of other families in the same boat doing the same. It’s either fight to keep them at their respective schools or homeschool which wouldn’t be feasible as I need to work.

There are a lot of legal challenges in the pipeline, a large % from SEN perspective. FYI very recent appeal case was upheld to keep child at the school of their choice based entirely on the child's wish to stay at that school even though LEA wouldn't name it in the EHCP.

Plan for about 24 months plus of paying fees - it isn't simply applying - if they refuse at first stage to even assess - year wait for tribunal, assess, refuse to issue, another wait, then issue with mainstream named, appeal, wait for tribunal- yes you may win in the end, but could easily be another 2 years of fees, plus cost of legal support if you use, which I know parents pay £50,000 for. Add LA's are under pressure to reduce independent placements.

The recent higher court has only asked for another tribunal panel to reconsider as child's views not considered properly - it may still fail when reheard at first tier due to cost - but it is definitely worth noting about childs view (and both schools were types which must be named, unlike an independent school).

Do you mean the legal fees to the LA?

If you are considering appeal to get a ehcp I'd do it ASAP as it's taking a year to hear appeals right now.

For one child I did an appeal to asses, then to issue, then contents, then to name a indi SEN school. Took me four years but I could have named in year 3 I wanted mainstream to work so didn't. I took 4 years.

How much is the vat? If it just 2-4k you could be paying that to get a private EP. I don't know many people (any) winning appeals for costly placements without a good EP report as ehcps are evidence based. You need really good evidence much more than legal help. Weight up your costs.

Appeals are exhausting. I have done more appeals than most ( ie a lot more than 4, more than double that personally for my 4 kids).

Get onto ipsea and sossen website asap.

If you get a echp but the LA won't pay the fees, it's looking like you can claim the vat back from what my sons school is saying. But basically it's not all certain yet

Thank you everyone who is posting with this level of detail here it’s very helpful as someone just setting out in EHCP journey. Please could you note the name of the case if you have it TwistyIxzy? This is all helpful as a v concerned parent.

I’m so sorry to read of everyone for whom January is going to bring a lot of stress and uncertainty and possibly upheaval for your kids. It’s incredibly unfair. I’m trying to get it together to write to my MP. I feel like they really need to hear these impacts. Now is the time that they are making up this policy on the hoof. We should try to inform them so that they have taken into account our concerns. I’m not saying this is easy or will ultimately change things completely as this is a totemic policy unfortunately. But its very important to make your kids needs heard to MPs.

@Takeachance18 Yes of course, I’m aware. We did all the EHCP paperwork back in January only for the LA to refuse to assess. In hindsight we should just have pressed on at that point but at least everything is prepared. Waiting to hear back about bursaries but not hopeful as I’m sure there’ll be inundated. We’ll make it work in the short term somehow.

If you need advice on the ehcp process and are in the south east SOSSEN often hold monthly drop in clinics. Or online chats.

I'm on a local ehcp experiences group on FB. So goggle "ehcp experiences" and your county. Ours is very active, very helpful.

Always appeal. Parents win over 80% of appeals. There are two case laws you need to look up. Nearest available school to meet need, not undue cost to tax payer. I think this one? Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council HS 800 2010.

Also note that you have two months to appeal, if your going to appeal you might want to look up expert witnesses ( EP) ASAP as some have a year waiting list. So consider that.

It's all a minefield. But it's all doable. My son has been in a independent SEN school for seven years with a ehcp. I had no solicitor or legal team.

Ideally realy labour Needs to open more SEN schools for kids that are academically able. There is only one state school that sits gcses in my huge county neighbouring London. How is that right? For us it's was indi sen or nowhere and now labour want cut off that route for some who can only just afford it.

This makes horrifying reading about the state of the SEN system https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/aug/04/special-educational-needs-system-england-utter-disarray-ombudsman-amerdeep-somal The VAT plans will add an unknown number of additional children with SEN needs into the state system. According to the Labour manifesto, not a single penny of the predicted private school VAT revenue will be spent on special needs education.

I think there may be a difference depending on whether the bursary is provided by the school or by a third party. My understanding is that, if a school is providing a bursary, it is structured as a tuition fee remission, i.e., the school charges a lower fee. Whereas if an external organization provides the bursary, the school charges full fees but the organization pays part of them.

If, hypothetically, the full tuition is £15,000 per year and the school grants a 60% fee remission, then the school charges reduced tuition of £6,000 per year and someone will need to pay VAT on that £6,000, so someone will need to pay £1,200. If, however, the bursary is provided by an external organization, the school charges the parents £15,000 tuition and the charity grants their child £9,000, usually by sending it directly to the school. But someone will then be liable for VAT on the £15,000, so £3,000.

This is also my understanding.

I think we fall into the category of people that most people are gloating about. There is almost no understanding that this policy will not affect the wealthy one bit. They will not even notice.

And trust me, people are gloating.

The British do love to see people fail IMO. I could never afford private schooling but I can't begrudge anyone striving to improve their lot. Our village private school is the only business in the village. It employs lots of non skilled staff.

Seeing my boys in indi sen schools I have been very lucky to able to know that state and indi are a world apart. In state we had to be grateful to get nothing. In independent people want the kids to thrive.

Soooo resentful!! Must be miserable being you!

Yes, all very poorly thought out and with no long term vision at all…. As is everything with Labour unfortunately.

Because the Tories have done an excellent job these last fourteen years, right?

Honestly I would t mind the Labour digs so much if they had a track record in recent times but they’re not being given a chance.

I can understand if you have a single topic issue with what they’re doing (like VAT on private schools if it affect you) but EVERYTHING??!

Some of their advisory appointments have been outstanding. Their swift response to the riots squashed the immediate danger extremely quickly.

Yes.

We are in this exact position (DC 75% bursar) and need to pay 12% VAT in 4 pay cheques times.

No idea how. None.

So, hypothetically, if ex-VAT tuition was £6000/term, you were paying £1500/term (25%), you now need to pay £2220/term (the £1500 plus an additional 12% of the full £6000)?

Is your bursary provided by the school or by an external organization?

Correct. The Bursary is an external one from a private charitable trust not affiliated with the school. They wrote to us to say they will drop the Bursary to 30% next year and withdraw it the year after

@AgathaMystery so the external bursary provider is holding their contribution steady but it won’t cover as high a percentage of fees, right?

what is your school saying about how it can mitigate impacts on those who are less able to pay higher fees?

Where do you live? Mind to share? I would love to send my kids to state schools where there are no Independent ones.

I live in outer London where state sixth forms are uniformly shit hot. Catchments are relatively large and even the super selective grammar lets some comp kids in for a levels.

This year we considered moving to the East Midlands and then the West Midlands where I’d have been confident in finding a good state sixth form.

I do understand it’s not like that everywhere but if you live rurally you get cheaper house prices. Horses for courses.

I personally would never ever pay for private sixth form but I know some people value it and that is fine - you do you!