VAT and Bursary impact

[tam255]

For some parents in London on a reasonable income who can’t afford to buy in the catchment of a good/ outstanding school, sending to a private school with partial fee assistance/ bursary is the next best option.

Often these big private schools in London in fact often support the state sector, local schools in their area with use of facilities, pools, drama studios etc and are very generous indeed even with teaching staff, Saturday schools etc supporting local schools. This important fact just seems to be forgotten.

As for the student intake, in fact in London most of the private schools have more diversity than the superselective Grammar schools!! Getting a place into a superselective Grammar school for a child in London requires deep pockets. A bright child who cannot afford all the numerous tutors and mock classes etc has no chance of getting through a superselective grammar school and if you can’t afford to live in the catchment area of a good comprehensive will miss out there too.

The reality is that, if a child on a part bursary is in primary school yes, you could have an option to move to a state school at some point. However if a child on a part bursary say is in private secondary school yr 9 onwards ( where subject choices etc have been made) it’s going to be impossible to just change them to the state sector till sixth form.

Yes, there will always be millionaires and billionaires in the private schools but also a lot of parents who are covered partially with bursary’s. With all the vat added it will impact the bursaries which is sad and more importantly the support the private schools offer to the local state schools around in their catchment.

I thought most bursaries came from endowments left to the school by alumni, not from fees? So surely it won’t affect them much at all. Or is that only at very old schools?

It’s a total shit show, I feel so sorry for all the children involved. At least give people more notice.

It’s a bit of both, but if you are on a bursary paying minimal feels you’ll still be expected to pay VAT on top.

They could always move to a state school - the majority of children in this country attend state school.
I have more sympathy with children whose parents need food banks and can’t afford school uniform or heating.

You are confusing separate issues.

VAT on schools fees is unrelated to parents needing food banks or not affording uniform/heating. VAT on school fees will do nothing to address those issues.

I think the OP explained in her first paragraph that her post relates to people in London who are not (and cannot afford to be) in the catchment of a good/outstanding school. So therefore your suggestion of moving to a state school is not a solution.

There are many children who attend schools not deemed outstanding or good. Many do not have the opportunity to attend private schools on bursaries or otherwise. The terrible deprivation of not being able to live in the catchment of an outstanding state school is really not something that is top priority. Making all state schools better is more important. The contribution of private schools to their community or local schools is minimal for most.

@SendMeHomeNow That is absolutely not the case. It’s definitely true that lots of girls schools don’t have huge endowments. They haven’t been around long enough and often rich women had money controlled by their husbands. Where my dc went, bursaries were fee funded.

93% of the population go to state school. Plenty of kids change schools. Private school is a luxury. Public school "help" to state schools is crumbs on the table. This constant entitled whining is really unedifying.

My guess is that the VAT will have close to zero effect on the number of private school places.

Perhaps they could eat less avocado toast and cut down on take away coffee to pay the additional VAT.

Our school has no such endowments. The bursaries are funded by current parents with a suggested voluntary donation (10%). We did pay, but will not be able to going forward.

I thought bursaries were for kids from low income households?

https://www.britsoc.co.uk/media-centre/press-releases/2021/april/scholarships-do-remarkably-little-to-make-private-schools-more-socially-inclusive-study-finds/

There are people all over the country who don't live in the catchment for good or outstanding schools.
OP's post seems to be about parents who can "just about" afford private school. I would suggest that if those parents have DC in Year 10 or Year 11 they will have the contacts and resources to beg, borrow or steal the money to keep their children in private school until sixth form.

I also think OP is overplaying the benefit that private schools provide to the community.

Not in London. You can earn six figure salaries and still be eligible.
In fact I'd love to know how many bursaries go to genuinely bright children from very clued up about the application process low income families. In fact I suspect getting a bursary is not that dissimilar to the superselective grammar entry process as described by OP.

93% of children go to state schools. It isn't a punishment.

Do you think parents who could only just not afford private school beforehand should have been given a discount?

Sending them to the local state school really is the solution if they really can't afford the 20% on the school fees they pay. Maybe the local private school will let them use their swimming pool once a week. I've heard they are very helpful.

Or, they could downsize, remortgate, ask their parents for money, or miss out on a couple of holidays.

Honestly the amount of energy that has gone into all these anti VAT threads....

It's happening. Pay the money or do what the majority of the population do and send your DC to state schools. Put all that energy wasted here into those instead.

I do think this is a little disingenuous. There are outstanding school across London, including outside of zone 1-3, so expensive but not well beyond the price range of someone already living in London elsewhere, all with great access to public transport. If you wanted to live near an outstanding school there will be places where the £15k a year+ you’ll save per child on school fees would probably top up any mortgage or rent where you are. You’re still at a massive advantage to a lot of kids because you could do this if you wanted to.

Sorry! No idea why that included an unrelated quote! This was in relation to the OP.

Agree and this is why the vast majority will not feel bad about this policy.

The number of threads on this illustrates lots of things about MN. I am sure that there are people on here that have experienced real poverty and a poor education but I think they are a few. Some people have no idea what it is like to have no alternative when it comes to their children's schooling.

Choice for most people is an illusion or for people with money.

DD got a part scholarship and to be honest she would have gone to the Private school anyway and the other Scholarship kids weren't from deprived backgrounds or anything so I don't think it helped with social mobility in that case.
Maybe Bursaries are different and maybe London is too?

The article that I linked to above agrees with you, and suggests that bursaries are not actually helping many disadvantaged children either.

This certainly tallies with the families that we know who have received bursaries and definitely don't need them. Our local schools essentially use them as a marketing tool.

NC.
I've been reading these VAT threads from the shadows. But I'll come out and say that my DS is the recipient of a bursary. He is also SEN and cannot manage in a state school. We tried, it failed. The bursary saves the local authority thousands, as if I pursued an EHCP and was successful, specialist places cost the LA in the region of 30k per annum. I don't know how many children there are in private schools with my DS's needs...but we do exist and this affects us deeply. We don't have a simple choice of 'private or state'. It's 'private or nothing.'

Yes people are sneering but it’s not easy to have to pull your child out of school, especially in year 10 or 11. There should be some empathy for the kids at least. We can’t have ‘needing to use foodbanks’ as the only marker for compassion.

It’s definitely children like your son that there is a lot of sympathy for on the many many MANY threads about this policy.

It's a shit show and much more time and thought should have gone into it. Let's see how much income it generates.

I would have thought these schools would now have to pull the bursaries and other charitable actions and become more elitist now.