VAT and Bursary impact

[tam255]

For some parents in London on a reasonable income who can’t afford to buy in the catchment of a good/ outstanding school, sending to a private school with partial fee assistance/ bursary is the next best option.

Often these big private schools in London in fact often support the state sector, local schools in their area with use of facilities, pools, drama studios etc and are very generous indeed even with teaching staff, Saturday schools etc supporting local schools. This important fact just seems to be forgotten.

As for the student intake, in fact in London most of the private schools have more diversity than the superselective Grammar schools!! Getting a place into a superselective Grammar school for a child in London requires deep pockets. A bright child who cannot afford all the numerous tutors and mock classes etc has no chance of getting through a superselective grammar school and if you can’t afford to live in the catchment area of a good comprehensive will miss out there too.

The reality is that, if a child on a part bursary is in primary school yes, you could have an option to move to a state school at some point. However if a child on a part bursary say is in private secondary school yr 9 onwards ( where subject choices etc have been made) it’s going to be impossible to just change them to the state sector till sixth form.

Yes, there will always be millionaires and billionaires in the private schools but also a lot of parents who are covered partially with bursary’s. With all the vat added it will impact the bursaries which is sad and more importantly the support the private schools offer to the local state schools around in their catchment.

I said many, not most.

They usually merge in such situation with other schools

Please read UK section here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/For-profit_education

Not " many" . It is not allowed in UK

What is a ‘truly Indy’ school versus one owned by PE?

There are a number of Dukes schools not far from here. I doubt the parents of children attending them would consider they weren’t at independent schools.

However nevertheless they aren’t charities. As the multiple thousand deposits would evidence

So the examples posted above are….

It’s easy enough not make a profit btw. You just have a hefty management charge for central support costs such as admin, finance, HR, marketing, educational materials development etc.

Exactly the sort DD attends. Independent. No links to any other school. The chains are more London/SE centric with exception of GDST

Oh you mean like state academies?

@Boater

However nevertheless they aren’t charities. As the multiple thousand deposits would evidence

I think the problem is that you use the word charity literally, whereas " not-for profit" and " charity" are business entities and as such referred in this discussion. For instance to maintain status of " charity". These business entities have a special tax codes. In essence they cannot exist for profit of any individuals and all income has to be either reinvested in school or donated ( charity) in the school activities, support to students if they have any surplus. These entities have annual independent accountant audit and their finance sheets are publicly available

@Boater

It’s easy enough not make a profit btw. You just have a hefty management charge for central support costs such as admin, finance, HR, marketing, educational materials development etc.

Yes, that is correct.

50% of independent schools do not have charitable status.

Yeah because the rest have " not for profit" status instead of " charity".

Yes which is why some schools groups run both independent schools and academies.

They are still not for profit

If I was paying for 2 kids fees of 40k a year and then another 8k a year in VAT to subsidise state schools, I would not be happy about my money subsidising bursaries as well. We are not that rich or generous, and don’t enjoy our stressful jobs so would be very resentful of this.

I doubt the drug and alcohol addicted or homeless or jobless of society will be pushing their poor children for bursaries anyway, it will be middle class parents, who know all the rules, what level to keep their incomes at, and what preparation their child needs to do. Hardly a top-priority charitable cause.

Please can you post the numbers which you believe are run by PE for profit

But are still owned by profit seeking owners. They ensure the school itself doesn’t make a profit by charging the equivalent of the school’s profit for the year as a management charge.

Get a grip love.

@Boater

The UK does not permit for-profit schools (independent schools are mostly non-profit making trusts), but there are a number of for-profit institutions in higher education. In 2013, Michael Gove, then secretary of state for education, was said to have drawn up plans to allow free schools and academies to become for-profit businesses, and in 2014, his successor Nicky Morgan refused to rule out for-profit schools. However, the Conservative manifesto for the 2015 General Election committed the party not to introduce for-profit schools, and after the Conservative victory, Morgan ruled out any place for for-profit schools in the UK education system.[3]
In higher education, by contrast, there are a large number of for-profit providers. A study by the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills identified 674 privately funded institutions and estimated that the majority were for-profit businesses (based on survey returns from 249 providers, of which 136 identified as for-profit).[4] Most of the 136 for-profit colleges that returned the survey were either non-specialist (56) or specialized in business, management and accountancy (49).[5] There are three for-profit universities in the UK: the University of Law, BPP University and Arden University, which are the only for-profit institutions with degree-awarding powers.

Conclusion: So at the primary and secondary school level there are no profit private schools in the UK

and?

Copying and pasting Wikipedia isn’t an argument.

But are still owned by profit seeking owners.

I think that the problem is that you don't understand the types of business entities.

The owner is not getting any profit. The owner can be salaried employee in the school. The " not for profit" and " charity" organisations are not governed by one owner but they have to have an electable board.

No, you state something as a fact you need to be able to back it up otherwise it isn't a fact. From what I can tell, the biggest group of private schools owned by PE companies are specialist SEN ones, so not the "normal" independent mainstream schools

Conclusion: So at the primary and secondary school level there are no profit private schools in the UK

Sigh.

There are schools, owned by Private Equity.

The school doesn’t make a taxable profit because the difference between its revenue and costs, I.e, its profit is reduced to nothing by a management charge from its owners.

Hence the school doesn’t make a profit.

The school’s owner however does make a profit because there is a margin on the cost of the actual support they provide centrally.

Have you been googling again. Well done.

Again? Ok
So if you have some top secret research that isn't available on the Internet please share it otherwise it is clear you don't understand what you are talking about.

Can you provide any evidence of ahat you have in mind. Private Equities can have members salaries by the school.