Sorry to ask but how are people affording private education?

[Tsc2011]

My child is in year 4 and so we’re having to start considering secondary schools. We have two good grammars in the area but the state schools available are woeful. The Grammars are very competitive to get in to. I went to one and tutoring for the 11+ was rare but now seems to be the norm, often starting in year 4. My children are both exceeding expectations in all areas at school but my eldest can get very anxious (but we think she would be cannon fodder in the local state schools) and I worry about how she will manage with the test and perceived pressure (note, I’m a principal scientist with a PhD and I struggled with some of the 11+ practice questions I looked at the other day!!). Some parents at my child’s school are opting for the local private school and I’m a bit flummoxed about how people are affording this. We don’t live in a particularly affluent area, one family have 3 in private school and run a very small business.
For disclosure we have a combined income of £130k, fees would amount to £2k/month, increasing to £3k as they got older (more of VAT is introduced). We currently save £1.7k a month in to savings but some of that then gets spent on holidays, home improvements etc so it’s not feasible at the moment to send both.

We’re wondering whether to try for the grammars and if one doesn’t get in we send one to private and if both don’t then we move.

Yes. The private ones I know of like Reigate Grammar were originally state funded grammar schools then became private and kept the name.
I was responding to op writing "We have two good grammars in the area but the state schools available are woeful."

Have you looked at Chester? I'm not there myself, but have friends who speak highly of both King's (co-ed) and Queen's (girls). I think there's also a third private school - Abbeygate? So lots of choice there.

As I understand it OP wants recommendations of places to move to with really good state school(s) rather than private.

@Tsc2011 can you work and thus live anywhere? I can recommend West Bridgford secondary in Notts, it is excellent, and WB is a nice place to live too.

If you need home counties-ish I believe Bishop Stortford has good schools tho this is from MN rather then my own knowledge.

Combined income of £180k (gross) and a frugal lifestyle. If we don’t get the state we want, it’ll be private for secondary. We don’t spend as much as you on holidays. We won’t be saving while paying schools fees, until the mortgage is paid off (which we overpay on the get it gone).

Large gap between kids so if DD2 needs private secondary there won’t be much crossover. With the addition of VAT we will have to dip into savings then though.

We very briefly considered private school for my dd. We had a discussion with her about the different options, and she asked how much private school would cost - so we told her: approx £20k per year for 7 years, so at least £140k in total - and she was shocked at this, and said she would be happy to go to a state school (there are a couple near us that she liked) so could we help her buy her first house instead of pay for private school!!

Our combined salary is similar to yours. Two kids, considering private (no grammars here as a “back up”). We could just about afford due to
a. Kind contributions from grandparents (which in all honesty you could argue would be better saved for uni or their first home)
b. We’ve saved loads over the years, live pretty frugally and well within our means, so are close to paying off our mortgage after 15 years.

however it would mean that we would need to earn a similar income for the next 10 years, which is quite scary tbh. And it would mean far less budget for holidays, cars and home improvements (luckily nothing major needed).

@Tsc2011 my dh earns about £180k including bonus (though is a 45% tax payer, so it's not as much as it sounds), and I earn 60k. We sent our boys to the local state comp until yr 11 then to grammar for sixth form. We live relatively frugally compared to many (old cars, modest holidays). With the money saved we will pay for their university education, give them each a substantial deposit towards a house, and we are squirreling significant amounts into our pensions so that we can retire comfortably at 60.

Each to their own, but my point is.that as part of this decision you may think beyond paying for private secondary school and plan ahead for subsequent stages of your life and for your children's futures.

A lot of people talk about giving a house deposit instead of private education. Aside from both potentially giving kids a 'leg up' in life, I don't see them as equivalent. My DS is struggling in state school with disruptive kids and dyslexia. I could not move him and instead give him a flat deposit when he's in his 20s but it's not really solving the struggles he's having at the age of 9.

We’re close to several military bases so our private school is full of US military kids (they subsidise the fees).

I feel your pain, many folks find themselves in this situation. We do not have grammars in our area and our dc are in private. Ds1 went to state but they couldn’t support around his ASD, dyslexia, dyspraxia due to the pressures we all know about in the system so we moved to a more supportive well resourced private school.
I would

• try for grammar school
• also apply local private(s) if they seem good solid options - do your research

we manage to pay fees by prioritising them, we haven’t upsized our house, drive ancient vehicles, have smaller number of cheaper holidays, second hand uniform. Majority we know are getting help from grandparents/inheritances.

good luck!

I earn 200k. I paid off my relatively modest house in 5 years when interest rates were low.

I had my DS when I was 43 and mortgage free.

I now save 60k per annum in a pension and put around 20k/30k aside for investments for school fees as I’ll want to retire well before DS leaves school so need to be saving far more than a single years fees every year until then.

We have no GP support or inheritance although I do know of quite a few that do use it to fund the school fees.

If you have a mortgage, 2 kids and no external support I think even on a salary like mine it’d be tight financially assuming you are also saving for a decent pension at the same time.

200k - 60k pension (pre-tax) leaves 140k which equates to 84k take home.

2 sets of school fees of 15k each leaves you with 54k.

A mortgage of maybe 2k per month then leaves 30k out of which is you need to pay for all bills, food, clothes, holidays etc.

It is affordable but you can see the type of salary you need to be able to do it reasonably comfortably assuming no external financial help. Dip below about 180k on a single salary and it’d be tough to do unless you sacrifice some pension savings.

You also need to factor in that the costs effectively start from birth as you’d be paying similar amounts to school fees as soon as they start nursery.

If you are moving, can you not just buy the house right next to the outstanding school, so even if it's oversubscribed, you get places?

If you think Grammar school isn't right, I'd avoid the grammar areas. The state schools seem better for decent students where the Grammar kids haven't been siphoned off.

A bit further north than your current search area, but our old house was catchment for 2 outstanding schools - and we got our first choice, whilst our neighbour's got their first choice, so it was a legitimate choice.
The other 2 schools in town are good (one of which I'm surprised isn't outstanding).
Admittedly, if you go 3 miles East, you will be faced with a choice of requires improvement or unsatisfactory. But there are patches where good state provision exists for all.
If you are serious about major relocation, you can find somewhere that will suit - or find somewhere that cost of living and school fees are achievable on your income.

To answer your actual question: people earn more, spend less or have help from somewhere (family, inheritance, previous savings, scholarship, bursery).

"2 sets of school fees at £15k each" - this will very much depend where in the country you are. For a London indie from Y7 you'll not get much change out of £30k for the entire year if you add everything together. You're looking at more like £24-25k for fees, and then on top of that, costs for uniform, transport, lunches, trips, any paid extracurricular such as music lessons. We budget for around £10k per term for one child - so literally double that £15k estimate for the year.

I'm a single mum on about half your income and pay half the fees for my dd (ex pays the other half). I holiday in the uk, drive an old car, wear old clothes. My mortgage is a lot less than yours which I think is the difference between being able to afford and not. I also have a share save scheme at work. Some years it has paid all the fees for that year. It's not looking so healthy at the moment so has paid about half of this years fees.

A high percentage - over 70% - of school fees are paid via earnings rather than inheritance and grandparents. The figure really surprised me. I think years ago that would have been different but certainly now is the case (will vary school to school, private, Indi, day etc).

People plan ahead, before kids are born. Get investments in place with the aim of paying school fees. Others will remortgage and take out loans. Others will have support from grandparents but not the high figure people think.

That’s correct. My real life numbers are based on the schools local to me which is not London or SE.

It’s pretty much impossible to do it for less which just goes to further enforce the level of income required if you are paying it all out of salaried income.

One of my parents died and left me a mortgage free house. I'm able to earn enough to live very frugally and send DD to a private school. We have a relatively old car (bought outright) and don't do fancy holidays or have loans to repay.

People can earn a surprising high salary for jobs you'd think would be fairly average. (Sadly I did not find these jobs early enough.)

In my experience it seems to be grandparents/significant inheritance or scholarships/bursaries, if the parents' income isn't high. Oh and one of the parents being a teacher at the school so getting a discount. Our combined income is 40k less than yours and private isn't even on our radar, it's impossible even though we do obviously have a decent income. But my parents could definitely afford it. I wouldn't ask them and given my mum is super left-wing I doubt she would agree anyway 😂 but they would have the money (mid-70s boomers).

OP, are you and DS putting significant amounts into pensions before your take home? And how much of your mortgage payment is principal repayment? Both things would be savings, not spending. I'm not saying that you shouldn't save, certainly at least for an emergency fund, but being illiquid (not enough cashflow) is different from being insolvent (not enough income).

She may still need to pass a test to get into the private school!

If 6 to 9% of kids are privately educated

The top 10% of households have an income over 70k post tax as far as I can tell

That gives them 35 k over the average household income

That's 35k for school fees and higher mortgage

Easy: I got on the housing ladder in 1997 so housing costs (i.e. mortgage interest) has been negligible for the past 20-off years and both of mine are on 50% scholarships. Simple really.

Just to add, there are some very generous scholarships and bursaries around so it’s worth searching online, if your child is particularly talented. In some schools, half the kids will be receiving some sort of bursary which does help, sometimes 50-100%. A lot of people are using up their life savings to send their kids to private school, which imo is not worth it, being someone who works in one and my kids go to the local comprehensive!

I presume by state schools you mean comprehensive?

All secondary schools seem terrifying to many parents (me at the time!) of Yr 4 kids. Big, full of hulking youths hauling each other about by their rucksacks and using terrible language.

But most comprehensives do do well by bright kids, who are not ‘canon fodder’ , and send more to good Unis than they do to young offender institutions.

My small, weedy, high achieving musical Dc thrived at our S London comprehensive, as did all their friends at the same and similar comprehensives

Of course not all schools are ok, but Have a really good look at the stats and outcomes and reports about your comprehensive alternatives, and talk to local parents before making yourselves stressed and miserable over money and putting yourselves at financial risk

The support for education at home is the biggest factor in academic outcomes.

You mentioned you'd looked at Ilkley as a possibility - I would definitely recommend. Ilkley Grammar is an excellent school and gets great results and, despite its name, it's a comprehensive not a grammar, so if you live in catchment then you will get a place as it's the only school serving Ilkley. Ilkley also gives you the option of sitting the 11+ for the Skipton grammar schools should you wish, though you're not guaranteed a place if you pass as it's out of catchment, but a lot of Ilkley kids do get in most years and there is a school bus from Ilkley to Skipton.