Sorry to ask but how are people affording private education?

[Tsc2011]

My child is in year 4 and so we’re having to start considering secondary schools. We have two good grammars in the area but the state schools available are woeful. The Grammars are very competitive to get in to. I went to one and tutoring for the 11+ was rare but now seems to be the norm, often starting in year 4. My children are both exceeding expectations in all areas at school but my eldest can get very anxious (but we think she would be cannon fodder in the local state schools) and I worry about how she will manage with the test and perceived pressure (note, I’m a principal scientist with a PhD and I struggled with some of the 11+ practice questions I looked at the other day!!). Some parents at my child’s school are opting for the local private school and I’m a bit flummoxed about how people are affording this. We don’t live in a particularly affluent area, one family have 3 in private school and run a very small business.
For disclosure we have a combined income of £130k, fees would amount to £2k/month, increasing to £3k as they got older (more of VAT is introduced). We currently save £1.7k a month in to savings but some of that then gets spent on holidays, home improvements etc so it’s not feasible at the moment to send both.

We’re wondering whether to try for the grammars and if one doesn’t get in we send one to private and if both don’t then we move.

People with kids at private school generally and on average make decent money. 130k sadly just isn't what it was a decade or so ago... but hopefully you find a way to work it as it's still decent money

Yes I agree with those who say it will be tricky to move if your second child fails the 11+. You won’t want to move the first dc, and you’ll be unlikely to be able to move in time to apply for the second.

I would move now tbh. Lots of areas have great comp schools.

@Tsc2011 sent state primary so spent those years saving for secondary. Ended up with 4 years of fees in savings when she started Yr 7 in September..
Only 1 child. Have put any spare cash over last 6 years into savings pot for fees + overpaying mortgage.

DS is moving to private this year (age 10). DD will follow in 5 years for secondary. Here's how with no inheritance or GP help.

• combined income £160k
• moving them later (ie upper primary/secondary)
• overlap of 3 years only
• remortgaged last year and took out some money to support those 3 years of double fees (money invested at the moment earning nice interest)
• in Scotland so fees not the crazy ones you see on MN a lot
• one car
• holidays but not luxury. Overall not a luxury lifestyle
• don't need to move house and house quite low maintenance.
• we'll be 57 when DD is in 6th year (ie last year of fees) so can access pensions then for breathing space.

I think the point is the OP combined earning are £130k and they don't live in an affluent area so the assumption would be that most people earn less than they.

OP it may be that some people DO earn a lot but have chosen to live in a not affluent area precisely so they can afford fees.

Grandparents are frequently helping those that appear to not possibly earn enough.

We have a combined income of about 120k so a bit less than you. We have one car (it’s a lease car on salary sacrifice from Dh work). No mortgage now (only because of a critical illness payout), and we only have one child. Hence he can be in private.
Tbh if we still had a mortgage we would be struggling to afford his education.

@Turmerictolly can you recommend anywhere? We’re actually in the process of getting ready to sell and are willing to move a distance to get them in to somewhere good. The areas we’ve looked at (mostly in the north (Harrogate, Ilkley, Skipton, North Leeds) tend to have one excellent school which is oversubscribed and then a series of under performing state schools. Where we are now has one outstanding grammar, one good grammar, one private and one outstanding state school (we’re not in the catchment for and the catchment is a really rough area).

We moved here Oxfordshire which had a lot of private schools and an ok state with very mixed results at the time. I loved the area but housing is expensive and it’s difficult for my job.

Our household income is a bit less than yours, but I work in a private school so get a whopping discount on fees. Makes it just affordable.

Op as more than one person has said, grammar schools are state schools. It’s good to be clear on that sort of thing tbh.

I mean bc if you move to an area with no grammar schools, all the non private schools will be state schools, but they will be a bit different from the “state” schools where you are now.

The families I know/know of mostly don't pay the whole fees out of their base salary. There might be some other income e.g. rental properties, holiday lets, investments, or it comes out of inheritance or grandparents or other relatives are helping out.

The thing with paying private fees out of salaries is that it also relies on you both sustaining that income (or higher) for the next 7+ years. You read some horrible threads on here where income has dropped and people are having to consider pulling children out of schools that they love. What would happen if one of you became ill or disabled and couldn't work as much (for example?)?

I'm not sure if you're factoring this in, but it's worth factoring in a minimum of 10% fee rises per year as well. Schools recently (state and private) have been facing a lot of increases in costs, and also staffing costs for private schools are increasing. In order to be sure of recruiting, they often have to pay over the odds.

Have you been to visit the local private school(s)? Do you think they offer value for money? There is one around here I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.

@Tsc2011, unfortunately I'm in Greater London so don't know school areas in the North. Hopefully there'll be other posters who can help though. I've heard places like Hampshire and Winchester have good state schools but I don't know these areas myself. Maybe you could start a new thread asking about very good state school areas in the North? Also, I guess you have to weigh up the costs of moving, possibly to a more expensive area, with the fees.

@clary not net income, £130k gross. Take home is around £5.8k/month.

@DG1749 that’s what we’ve been hoping to do but we’ve been struggling to find an area with evenly good comprehensive schools. We’re currently in the NW and considered Harrogate but a lot of schools were downgraded recently and the remaining excellent secondaries are either catholic (my children aren’t) or one very subscribed school. Other areas we’ve looked at tend to have one very good, over subscribed school and then struggling alternatives. If anyone has any suggestions we’d be very grateful.

Same way you’d pay for nursery. For us the fees weren’t that dissimilar initially. However the fees and added cost increase year on year.

our joint income was also much higher, when our two DC started in reception our income was about £180k (school fees in reception were about £13k each)

Sorry you just don't have enough cash to fund the private school lifestyle. Last thing you want is to get your children into schools they totally love it and then have to pull them out (lots of families do and then it disappoints the children 😭)

It's too tight .... defo move.

I wouldn't do it based on your numbers.

Plus it's not just the fees - it's the residentials that they will want to do (one going tomorrow for 3 days - 2 going skiing at Easter, one going to France - it's not just the fees - loads of extras) your income too tight and then you could get resentment between the children if you don't do private for both.

Benefit of state / grammar - walking distance from home plus local friends. The amount of hrs I spend driving is bonkers.

Move into a grammar / good comp area 👍 not put yourself under the pressure of the independent sector - bills and school fees are are just getting higher 👍

They've got more money than you.

Is this something you never thought about? Do you think everyone has the same amount of money as you?

Ah OK I was going off what someone else said. I assume 130k gross tbh. 5.8k is still low tho. Google tells me that two people on 65k would take home about 7.6k between them, and one person on 130k would take home £6.5k. So you can see why we are puzzled.

I earn about a quarter of your gross household income and my take home is about £2.3k - and yes, I am aware of the existence of a higher rate of tax. I am still staggered that four x my gross income = 2.5 x my net income.

BTW @Tsc2011 even if a very good school is oversubscribed, you can move to right near it and then you will get in (unless admission is via lottery). So just one good school will be all you need. Oversubscribed just means lots of people put it down - the school will still have space for the nearest 220 11yos (or whatever its PAN is obvs).

Personally, my dd is 4 and we are saving now in the instance that the state schools don't improve.

In your shoes though with x2 I'd probably move to a better area and focus on savings for University.

@Opinuga if you read my original post you’ll find I’m not staggered that we can’t afford it but more staggered that other people on seemingly less income can, and I’m wondering what they cut back on.
Private school would be the absolute final option for us, and as explained, only if it was for one child only (and the other was at a good school) as we’re fully aware that’s all we could afford. In fact I went to university with a lot of people who went to private school (I rowed and the majority of members were privately educated) some did well but many I knew ended up with third class degrees, either working in low- income jobs or relying on parents to get them more profitable roles. I went to a grammar school and that, or a very good comp, would be our first choice, whether we could afford private or not.

Are the grammar schools not state schools? (Funded by the state so you don't pay fees)

As others have said, people afford it through higher basic incomes, lower outgoings, making sacrifices, utilising family support (I know of families where grandparents are footing anything from 20% to 100% of the school fees), private school employee discounts and so on.

Bear in mind that for many high earners, their basic salary is only part of an overall package and they will have other significant financial benefits (bonuses, commission payments, stock options) that can easily fund school fees if managed wisely.

Grammar schools are state schools, although confusingly some private schools have grammar in their name (eg Manchester Grammar School is private, Stretford Grammar School is state)

I know a family with an income over 200k gross and they have put 2 children through London day schools from start to finish. They haven't found it that easy tbh, but they could do it while still having holidays etc.

Private education is an ENORMOUS amount of money. And I agree with the pp that says it's not unusual to find state secondary schools looking a bit terrifying before you get there, but they're OK once you're there.

If you're planning to move now, then I would just work on finding the state school you like most and pay the premium to live within a few yards of it. You won't be alone.

DH has a higher income with stock options, I'm a sahm with rental properties. We pay for 2 dcs in a London prep. Most families there have fairly obviously high incomes (law, finance). I suspect others get some family help (we don't) but nobody ever talks about finances explicitly. Most aren't struggling, all go on holidays and own London homes (but some are in flats not houses).

If we had decided against private, we had considered plans to move close to top state comps. We wouldn't have considered moving close to a grammar school, because there's quite a high risk of not getting in, whereas if you move close enough to a top comp then you will get in. And grammar schools in London tend to be in the outer boroughs and we like to be more central. For distance criteria it would need to be the same or neighbouring roads for me to feel secure. Agree with pp that it doesn't matter if it's hugely oversubscribed, as long as you're the one meeting the oversubscription criteria. There will be siblings and dc in care and with EHCPs etc who get in ahead of the distance criteria, but they won't take up all the spaces and you just need to be at the top of the list of those who get in via distance, which you would by living strategically close enough.