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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Ex is applying for schools that will make it difficult for DD and me

217 replies

lonerdottierebel · 27/10/2023 09:37

Applications for secondary schools close on Tuesday 31st. My ex has custody and is leaving it until the last minute to make the application. They have purposefully been elusive about it, giving me tiny bits of information to make it look like they are involving me so that it appears that way to a judge (should it come to that), making it difficult for me to prove otherwise. This is a common tactic of theirs and is very frustrating. On top of that, the two schools she is favouring most (as is DD because she does whatever will make ex happy), are in locations that would make it very difficult for our daughter to come to me two nights a week as per court order.

A minimum of two buses is required with substantial walking between bus stops. A forty minute journey each way minimum. I have explained this to my ex who sees this as an opportunity to alienate me further, as we both know that DD, who although says that journey will be fine and although it's only three trips altogether (two back to mine, one to school), will soon tire of it, and when it gets to the school day ending, and she's tired, and the choice is between walking five minutes back to my ex's or making multiple walks and bus journeys to get to mine, she is going to choose the easy option, and could you blame her?

So, what can I do? I have tried being polite with my ex and I have tried being firm. It's on record that I have opposed her school choices and for fair reason. There are schools that more central with more direct and accessible bus routes to both ends of the city (I live one end, ex lives the other). I've reminded them that they are leaving it to the last minute. They know this but are doing it purposefully. I have contacted my solicitor who is on holiday.

In the meantime, what are my rights? I have PR, but not custody. Can I make an application myself listing more reasonably-located schools? If so, how does that affect my ex's application? And just looking for advice in general. I appreciate that as I don't have custody their might not be much I can do but thought it was worth asking around whilst my solicitor is away.

I should also add that for personal reasons I am physically unable to drive and taxis across town will quickly become too expensive to sustain. I have contacted the council about support with transport, but they only offer that to the resident parent. Otherwise, the children are expect to get a public bus. This is all new to me as I grow up in a more rural location with designated school buses that took us from our homes straight to the school gates. I didn't realise I'd been so privileged until now!

Lastly, there is has been an ongoing campaign to alienate me from DD since her birth. On a few occasions we have spent months apart from wedges that have been driven between us for no good reason and it has taken a lot of work to undo the damage. So please bare that in mind when responding. This is a continuation of that alienation.

OP posts:
Lovemusic82 · 27/10/2023 14:34

I don’t understand why people are being so harsh and why people are assuming it’s as simple as changing contact days. OP has been to court and been granted 2 days a week contact? It’s not as simple as just changing those days, his ex would have to agree to it. OP has said that they can’t drive due to a disability.

Of course the priority here is DD and if op rocks the boat too much contact could easily be stopped completely as his dd will soon be of an age where she gets a say in contact (12). I don’t think there’s much that can be done about what school dd goes too, her mother has custody and also dd gets a say in where she wants to go, I’m sure for your dd and your ex your 2 contact days don’t take priority over their choice of school. I don’t think there’s anything you can really do.

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2023 14:34

Bluevelvetsofa · 27/10/2023 14:32

Let’s say, for example, that in your ideal world, your daughter goes to a school you prefer. One that’s out of catchment, a few miles away and requires a bus journey. Who’s going to pay the bus fare each day? If you have no money left at the end of the month, it’s not going to be you is it. Do you think your ex would accede to a request to stump up money for bus fares for a school that was not on her list of preferences.

What you want doesn’t come into the equation. What matters is what your daughter prefers and whether her preferences meet the criteria for admission.

Very fair point...

EandKDJ · 27/10/2023 14:39

Shewhobecamethesun · 27/10/2023 10:04

No genders are mentioned. I presume OP is the dad and mum has residency.
OP please correct me if I'm wrong

Show quote history

Or a same sex relationship...

boscabosco · 27/10/2023 14:41

what is the disability that means you cannot drive?

arethereanyleftatall · 27/10/2023 14:48

Not once in your fairly lengthy op did you detail what is best for your daughter.
That's telling.

TomatoSandwiches · 27/10/2023 14:50

It isn't your DDs or her mother's responsibility to facilitate contact to the point you believe is reasonable op, all her mother has to do is make your DD available, if DD wishes to not make the journey it isn't enforceable.

If you are unwilling or/and unable to make adjustments within your single control then you will have to accept a new normal.

However this is still all a moot point, your DD may find the journey to yours absolutely no problem.

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2023 15:01

arethereanyleftatall · 27/10/2023 14:48

Not once in your fairly lengthy op did you detail what is best for your daughter.
That's telling.

Isn't it just!

theleafandnotthetree · 27/10/2023 15:07

OP, no one here has any idea of the dynamics of your situation other than what YOU'VE shared....and on this site the great majority assume the worst about men and the best about women (especially mothers!). I personally think you've been given a harsh time of it here and can feel how powerless you feel. Realistically, I think that there is very little you can do to stop your daughter going to the school of her mother's choosing - and of course it is also of your daughters choosing even if you have doubts as to whether that is as free a choice as it might be. Your disability and limited income make the situation even more difficult. All you can do is be her Dad, a good and steady presence in her life, even if its limited in terms of time together, even if it's via text etc a lot of the time. Being a parent is a long game and a complicated one, especially where there is separation and even if relations are good and nobody is trying to alienate anybody. My 16 year old son is minded to stay more with me these days, something I never anticipated and I do nothing to actively encourage. My daughter may in time stay more with her Dad. At this age and stage you have to go with the flow to an extent, which I know cam be very rough.

SheilaFentiman · 27/10/2023 15:11

boscabosco · 27/10/2023 14:41

what is the disability that means you cannot drive?

If OP wanted to tell us this, he would have done.

SaffronSpice · 27/10/2023 15:18

I suspect the mother has already submitted the application and is just trying to defer the argument.

Crunchingleaf · 27/10/2023 15:20

OP, no one here has any idea of the dynamics of your situation other than what YOU'VE shared....and on this site the great majority assume the worst about men and the best about women (especially mothers!).

For me it’s not about taking a woman’s side over a man’s. I am taking the child’s side. The child’s needs and voice are not part of OP’s priorities when it comes to secondary school. In fact practical considerations such as catchment area/over subscribed schools are not considered by OP at all.

I won’t deny that once a child hits secondary school it can be hard for the NRP to nurture a relationship with the child. Realistically the relationship needs to be strong going into those teenage years to begin with. However, if OP can consistently demonstrate to his child that the child is always the number one priority even when it goes against what is best for the adult then long term the outlook for the relationship will be positive.

SheilaFentiman · 27/10/2023 15:22

SaffronSpice · 27/10/2023 15:18

I suspect the mother has already submitted the application and is just trying to defer the argument.

Yes, this is quite likely

Reugny · 27/10/2023 15:24

boscabosco · 27/10/2023 14:41

what is the disability that means you cannot drive?

Doesn't matter.

I can give you a couple immediately eye sight issues and epilepsy.

Neither mean you can't look after a child.

SaffronSpice · 27/10/2023 15:24

If OP was concerned for the child’s best interest they would have checked out catchments for each school and likelihood of admittance, how good each school is, what they offer that matches their daughters interests or not, facilities and ethos of each school….

SheilaFentiman · 27/10/2023 15:25

OP

This is what my county says for secondary applications.

The address on the application must be the child's current permanent place of residence, usually the parents' address.

  • Where the child is subject to a child arrangements order and that order stipulates that the child will live with one parent/carer more than the other, the address to be used will be the one where the child is expected to live for the majority of the time.
  • In other cases where the parents do not live together, the address is where the child spends most of their time. In cases, where the child spends an equal time between their parents/carers, it will be up to the parent/carers to agree which address to use.
  • Where a child spends their time equally between their parents/carers and they cannot agree on who should make the application, we will accept an application from the parent/carer who is registered for child benefit (where applicable). If neither parent/carer is registered for child benefit we will accept the application from the parent/carer whose address is registered with the child's current school or nursery.
  • You must not use a business or carer/childminder's address.
  • You must also not use a relative's address unless the child lives at that address as their normal place of residence.
  • We will not normally accept a temporary address if the main carer of the child still owns or rents a property that has previously been used as a home address, nor if we believe it has been used to obtain a school place when an alternative address is still available to that child.
  • Where a temporary address is used to secure a school place and the agreement to reside there is due to expire before the allocation of places, we may contact you for an update on your plans to secure a more permanent address.
  • An application can only be made from one address, and only one application per child can be made.

We will need proof of where you live - usually your council tax number, or if you are not responsible for council tax, two forms of alternative evidence, such as a copy of your signed tenancy agreement and a utility bill or driving licence.
We will check the address on your application against the records we hold for your child's current school and we may also check council tax records or write to ask you to provide proof of your address.
We will investigate any applications where there is doubt about the address being given. Use of false information may lead us to withdraw an offer of a place, even after a child has started at a school.

RedToothBrush · 27/10/2023 15:28

Crunchingleaf · 27/10/2023 15:20

OP, no one here has any idea of the dynamics of your situation other than what YOU'VE shared....and on this site the great majority assume the worst about men and the best about women (especially mothers!).

For me it’s not about taking a woman’s side over a man’s. I am taking the child’s side. The child’s needs and voice are not part of OP’s priorities when it comes to secondary school. In fact practical considerations such as catchment area/over subscribed schools are not considered by OP at all.

I won’t deny that once a child hits secondary school it can be hard for the NRP to nurture a relationship with the child. Realistically the relationship needs to be strong going into those teenage years to begin with. However, if OP can consistently demonstrate to his child that the child is always the number one priority even when it goes against what is best for the adult then long term the outlook for the relationship will be positive.

This.

Child first

And

If OP was concerned for the child’s best interest they would have checked out catchments for each school and likelihood of admittance, how good each school is, what they offer that matches their daughters interests or not, facilities and ethos of each school…

This

OP is demonstrating well the 'me, me, me' issue.

WhamBamThankU · 27/10/2023 15:30

TomatoSandwiches · 27/10/2023 10:33

No court or LA would side with you on this so best to look at things you can do to change your circumstances like learning to drive, moving closer or requesting a change of contact days.
Your post is entirely self centered so I'm not surprised if you ex has resorted to these methods tbh, grow up.

This

MangoBabyMango · 27/10/2023 15:34

I hope OP's ex reads this thread. It will hopefully be validation for the difficulties OP is causing her and her dd.

OP, will you take anything on board?

coffeeaddict77 · 27/10/2023 15:39

lonerdottierebel · 27/10/2023 13:39

I have PIP. It doesn't go as far as you think it does. I'm down to £0 most weeks because I have to just do one round taxi trip a week with my daughter to drop her back home. Buses don't work for me as with my disability the way it is I need a door to door service.

My ex has a history of frequently moving house. As soon as I move, she will move again. This is also reason for a more central school, as I don't foresee them living in the same area of the city for the entire time DD is at secondary.

I hadn't mentioned changing contact days because sadly that's not the easy fix that everyone is making out. It would require a court application which I would rather avoid. My ex has never been one to do things to help without a judge weighing in, otherwise I would obviously ask for that.

Show quote history

It doesn't matter if she moves house if you are close to the school. She won't keep changing the school so your DD will be able to go to/from your house to school.

WhamBamThankU · 27/10/2023 15:40

Flamingo68 · 27/10/2023 12:50

There’s increasingly a view that parental alienation isn’t really a valid phenomenon and might actually be used by controlling ex- partners to try and continue to influence power over their child’s other parent…

I can assure you it's real from personal experience.

OVienna · 27/10/2023 15:55

SheilaFentiman · 27/10/2023 15:25

OP

This is what my county says for secondary applications.

The address on the application must be the child's current permanent place of residence, usually the parents' address.

  • Where the child is subject to a child arrangements order and that order stipulates that the child will live with one parent/carer more than the other, the address to be used will be the one where the child is expected to live for the majority of the time.
  • In other cases where the parents do not live together, the address is where the child spends most of their time. In cases, where the child spends an equal time between their parents/carers, it will be up to the parent/carers to agree which address to use.
  • Where a child spends their time equally between their parents/carers and they cannot agree on who should make the application, we will accept an application from the parent/carer who is registered for child benefit (where applicable). If neither parent/carer is registered for child benefit we will accept the application from the parent/carer whose address is registered with the child's current school or nursery.
  • You must not use a business or carer/childminder's address.
  • You must also not use a relative's address unless the child lives at that address as their normal place of residence.
  • We will not normally accept a temporary address if the main carer of the child still owns or rents a property that has previously been used as a home address, nor if we believe it has been used to obtain a school place when an alternative address is still available to that child.
  • Where a temporary address is used to secure a school place and the agreement to reside there is due to expire before the allocation of places, we may contact you for an update on your plans to secure a more permanent address.
  • An application can only be made from one address, and only one application per child can be made.

We will need proof of where you live - usually your council tax number, or if you are not responsible for council tax, two forms of alternative evidence, such as a copy of your signed tenancy agreement and a utility bill or driving licence.
We will check the address on your application against the records we hold for your child's current school and we may also check council tax records or write to ask you to provide proof of your address.
We will investigate any applications where there is doubt about the address being given. Use of false information may lead us to withdraw an offer of a place, even after a child has started at a school.

Yes, this. However sympathetic anyone who knows the dynamic here in real life might be, it's entirely possible that the schools the OP would find preferable to the one most local to the mother, the child wouldn't even be allocated anyway. @lonerdottierebel In many (most?) places in England (if that is where the OP is) I'd venture school 'choice' is a bit of myth. But it's also true that the ex is unlikely to keep moving once the DD is enrolled.

SheilaFentiman · 27/10/2023 15:59

Yes, agree she is unlikely to keep moving once school is sorted

NumberTheory · 27/10/2023 16:00

If your ex will only do things to help at a judges direction, you’re going to have to go to court to get a judges direction. No one here is going to be able to make your Ex do things that you can’t or find a way for you to influence him that you haven’t yet thought of.

A courtorder about the school choice, contact days or requiring your ex to facilitate travel would probably be the way to go. See a solicitor ASAP to see whether any of those are likely to be feasible.

tattygrl · 27/10/2023 16:02

coffeeaddict77 · 27/10/2023 15:39

It doesn't matter if she moves house if you are close to the school. She won't keep changing the school so your DD will be able to go to/from your house to school.

Show quote history

This is a very salient point from coffeeaddict. This might simply have to be how you approach things, OP. Focus on YOU being in close vicinity of her school once her place has been allocated. Nothing much else you can do from the sounds of it, and that way DD is kept central to this whole issue, as she should be.

Twillow · 27/10/2023 16:05

I was in the position of having our child more nights but as two of those were the weekend he had more school nights and was legally able to choose the school. I think you have to do what you can withing the limits of the geography, establish a positive relationship with your child eg phone or message every day and don't let the child get dragged into the parental alienation by criticising the ex. Enjoy the time you do have together -a battle of wills is pointless. If you have a court order for 2 nights, can they be the weekend?

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