Ex is applying for schools that will make it difficult for DD and me

[lonerdottierebel]

Applications for secondary schools close on Tuesday 31st. My ex has custody and is leaving it until the last minute to make the application. They have purposefully been elusive about it, giving me tiny bits of information to make it look like they are involving me so that it appears that way to a judge (should it come to that), making it difficult for me to prove otherwise. This is a common tactic of theirs and is very frustrating. On top of that, the two schools she is favouring most (as is DD because she does whatever will make ex happy), are in locations that would make it very difficult for our daughter to come to me two nights a week as per court order.

A minimum of two buses is required with substantial walking between bus stops. A forty minute journey each way minimum. I have explained this to my ex who sees this as an opportunity to alienate me further, as we both know that DD, who although says that journey will be fine and although it's only three trips altogether (two back to mine, one to school), will soon tire of it, and when it gets to the school day ending, and she's tired, and the choice is between walking five minutes back to my ex's or making multiple walks and bus journeys to get to mine, she is going to choose the easy option, and could you blame her?

So, what can I do? I have tried being polite with my ex and I have tried being firm. It's on record that I have opposed her school choices and for fair reason. There are schools that more central with more direct and accessible bus routes to both ends of the city (I live one end, ex lives the other). I've reminded them that they are leaving it to the last minute. They know this but are doing it purposefully. I have contacted my solicitor who is on holiday.

In the meantime, what are my rights? I have PR, but not custody. Can I make an application myself listing more reasonably-located schools? If so, how does that affect my ex's application? And just looking for advice in general. I appreciate that as I don't have custody their might not be much I can do but thought it was worth asking around whilst my solicitor is away.

I should also add that for personal reasons I am physically unable to drive and taxis across town will quickly become too expensive to sustain. I have contacted the council about support with transport, but they only offer that to the resident parent. Otherwise, the children are expect to get a public bus. This is all new to me as I grow up in a more rural location with designated school buses that took us from our homes straight to the school gates. I didn't realise I'd been so privileged until now!

Lastly, there is has been an ongoing campaign to alienate me from DD since her birth. On a few occasions we have spent months apart from wedges that have been driven between us for no good reason and it has taken a lot of work to undo the damage. So please bare that in mind when responding. This is a continuation of that alienation.

Which is the best school for your DD?

If they are all equal - highly unlikely - logistics should be a factor in decision making, however, it should be around your DD's needs not yours. I would say pick the school that easiest for her for where she lives for the majority of the time.

You need to start looking at changing your days or moving location.

You are giving the dad too much credit. Op's top priority is to make thing awkward for his ex. His options are running out, soon, he'll have no sticks left to beat the ex with and she will be free.

Just echoing what others have said - you dont get a 'choice' when you apply for a school place. You get to list in order of preference which one you would prefer to send your child too. In reality in some areas of the country, including where I live, you will only be able to attend your catchment school as the others are too popular with those who live in the catchment so they attend them. There is very little possibility of attending a school which is not your catchment school in many areas of the country.

I think you need to be pragmatic and understand that your daughter will attend the school local to where she lives as that is the one that she will most definatly get into to. It would be a huge gamble to put schools further away (whether they were nearer you or not) as she might end up with no school or a completely unsuitable one.

When kids become teenagers all they want to do is hang out with their friends which is why most parents choose to send them to their local school as it makes everyones life easier - especially their child's.

I know this isn't what you are wanting to hear but there is nothing you will be able to do to change your daughters school choice if the resident parent has put the closet school to where they live first. No judge or LA would consider this unreasonable and would not change it. School 'choices' are not determined on the needs of the parent, easy commutes or out of school issues (look at the appeal threads on here to understand more about this).

There may well be issues about parental alienation but focusing on the school choice is not going to change anything about this. Concentrate on what you can do - move closer to where she lives, change contact to weekends instead etc.

It's not exactly working for him, to be fair. It's very obvious what he's doing and what type of a man/father he is.

A friend of mine, her ex tried to insist on what school choices he wanted rather than ones which were best for the dd involved. He wanted the one in the village where he lives rather than the town where the dd lived most of the time with my friend. He took her to court, court threw it out.

Funnily enough the dd now refuses to see her dad at all. His behaviour about putting himself first in this situation permeated through to other areas.

OP - you could look at moving closer to your dd.

Is the school your ex prefers even walking distance/very local to their address? Or are they picking schools which are further away from your?

We all know Vivienne… they seem like just the type of person to do something so petty and vindictive.

In one of the later posts the OP mentions that primary friends are going to a different secondary and is using this is part of the "evidence" to support their thoughts about location of secondary.

From experience OP (personal and having 2 DC) friendships change so much from last year of primary to first years of secondary that this is a minor point.

Your DD will absolutely benefit from having new friendships at secondary that are local to her.

Location, location, location!

Alter your days with your DD and/or find, create, sustain a whole range of other ways of staying in touch.

Put your DD first. Not you.

@lonerdottierebel have you looked at the admissions data for multiple previous years and the likelihood it would be to get your DD in a centrally located school in your city? You will find it on your council's website.

Some schools have very tight catchment and distance criteria. Your DD might not have any chance at all in getting into this centrally located school. If the distance criteria does extend out further than other schools, it could be an indication that this school isn't as popular vs its cohort and I would suggest may not be as good as other schools.

Before you start kicking off about this with your ex, get your ducks in a row, do the research & know the facts

It is also highly likely that a teenage girl will have her views heard in court. You may think she says what the ex wants but teens have a habit of saying what suits them best. It isn't really surprising that your dd will want to go to school near where she lives the majority of the time. Chances are she has looked round the school and likes the look of it. I have noticed that you have said absolutely nothing about the relative merits of these schools beyond the fact that they are further away for you. It doesn't suggest that you are thinking about your dd. Most parents want a good school for their kids. Are the schools chosen by your dd and ex good schools? Shouldn't this be an important factor?

So can we just recap based on OP information: The DD is actually being sent to schools away from her primary school friends. The other info about the journey still stands, but many posters are commenting that being with friends is a key issue in deciding where the secondary school should be. So are those posters then changing their advice?

However, setting that aside, OP there is the very real issue of whether you are allowed to apply for schools yourself, and whether you'd have any chance if its all based on DD's mums address. You can get more helpful advice by asking your local authority - you can ring today. Or even ring the admissions officers at one or two of the schools you would prefer.

OP we are only getting your side of this story and it is noticeable that your posts seem to be entirely focused on what is best for you and not what is best for your daughter.

If she is only going to be spending one school night per week with you, then proximity to your house is quite a long way down the list of considerations for choosing her secondary school. What is more relevant is how good the various schools are, which school she wants to go to, and how easy it is to get from her mother's house where she lives most of the time to her new school. You talk about how tiring and difficult she would find it taking two buses to get from her school to your house once a week and don't seem to consider how tiring or difficult she might find it travelling further between her home and her school the rest of the time.

I appreciate that this situation is annoying for you but you need to put her interests first, not yours.

Is there any chance of you moving closer to where she is?

"In one of the later posts the OP mentions that primary friends are going to a different secondary and is using this is part of the "evidence" to support their thoughts about location of secondary. " - that's probably because so many PPs are using need to be with friends as their "evidence" to support the DD going to a school local to her.

I agree the OP needs a re-think, but not just because he's a man - I reckon answers, as ever, would be different if the OP was the mum.

The only way through this is if you move to a more convenient location to the schools that are being applied for.

Parental alienation or not the LEA aren’t interested. They look at Primary residence and distance to school. Whether Jane spends Thursday evenings with her Aunty Doreen or Mabel goes to her dads house 2 nights per week so needs a school close to them is immaterial

Your ex moving away could be considered as parental alienation but choosing schools based on the address your ex moved to isn’t.

You do realise that that even if your ex applied to schools that were more central to both of you that the LEA will more than likely not give you these schools because if they are any good they will be oversubscribed with children who actually live within a short distance of the school and your dd will not get a school on her list of choices but instead will be arbitrarily chosen one that will be inconvenient for everyone and/or a school that no one wants to go to for good reason.

Pick your battles. You need to workout what YOU need to do to solve problems like this and stop trying to get other people to do what you want to solve your problems for you.

The more you make this about your needs, the less likely your dd is to make the effort to come around.

I get the impression that you think for your dd it is a choice between you and her ex. Given a few more years of this BS and she will be gone from both of your lives.

A 40 min trip isn’t terribly unusual. It makes more sense for your daughter to have at least some days a week with a short commute even if the other two are longer. Otherwise you’re forcing her to be far from her friends for your convenience, not hers.

I disagree that the answers would be different. There is a common element of putting the child first, practicality etc that underpins most answers!

Remove the custody bit for a second. There are hundreds of threads here about secondary school choices, grammar, catchment, 11+, travel etc. It is a decision that even in non contentious situations is difficult.

I don't think there is anything you can do if your DD is saying she wants to go there. I would instead look at it practically (from the angle of, control what you can control) can you access flexible working so that you can drive your DD to school when she stay over? Even if you have to reduce it to one night.

Just to add my DD doesn't go to the local school, it can be tough to make it work. The bus add an extra 90 minutes to her day minimum (and its expensive) and she has little time to be back out for her clubs. It also make extra- curricular tough and is a massive balancing act to get her afterwards! So whilst I totally understand how hard it is dealing with a high conflict ex you may not have this one right.

Primary friends often melt away at secondary even if they go to the same school.
Living near to new friends from secondary is what is more important.

It doesn't matter the sex of the OP, whether they're a mum or a dad. No judge is ever going to say that it is unreasonable for the parent who has residency to apply to the nearest secondary school.

The sex of the OP doesn't change the fact that you can't make two applications for one child.

@lonerdottierebel you would need some kind of actual reasonable grounds to object to the school your ex is putting as first preference. Such as it being in special measures with consistently dire results, and knowing that your DD would likely be able to get a place at a better school. Even then, schools in special measures are allocated pupils each year, so I doubt even that would fly.

If you really cannot agree make a court application - Child Arrangements Order C100 form - and tick for a Specific Issues Order with respect to making a decision where your child should attend school.

Seriously… what is the best school choice for your DD. What are the likelihood of her getting a place in your preferred location over your Ex’s preferred location. As your daughter is getting older she will require more independence etc and will naturally be more focused on her peers. It makes sense for her to go to a school local to where she lives.
You think the top priority in school choice is your relationship with the child. It’s a lot more complicated than that. Once kids start puberty and become teenagers they start distancing themselves from their parents and put greater emphasis on their peer group. It’s a natural part of their development. It’s difficult being a teenager moving between two homes plus being a typical teenager. Have you considered how your DD’s needs are changing and will the status quo work for much longer? What can you do to make it work?

As for parental alienation. I know all about it and how it’s often weaponised by abusive or incompetent parents against the other parent in court situations.

The other thing you may want to bear in mind, OP, is that even if your ex hasn't discussed the school applications with you as much as you might like, she probably has discussed it quite a lot with your daughter.

I don't know whether, as a non resident parent with PR, you can go over your ex's head and just apply to the schools you would like your daughter to go to if you get in there first. But if you can do that, and you do, imagine how your daughter is likely to react to finding out that the choices she and her mum were making together have been taken out of their hands by her dad.

Do you think that is likely to improve your relationship with her, or make it worse?

Yes exactly.The concept of friendship IS very important (as many PPs have said)

What is less important is existing primary friends - which the OP brought into the conversation to defend their choice of school!

Primary friendships will have less significance in secondary. It's the new, local friendships that will matter at the new, local secondary.

Go back to court and get 50/50 and force a more central school location.

Why? That doesn't sound like it would be in the daughter's best interests at all.