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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Ex is applying for schools that will make it difficult for DD and me

217 replies

lonerdottierebel · 27/10/2023 09:37

Applications for secondary schools close on Tuesday 31st. My ex has custody and is leaving it until the last minute to make the application. They have purposefully been elusive about it, giving me tiny bits of information to make it look like they are involving me so that it appears that way to a judge (should it come to that), making it difficult for me to prove otherwise. This is a common tactic of theirs and is very frustrating. On top of that, the two schools she is favouring most (as is DD because she does whatever will make ex happy), are in locations that would make it very difficult for our daughter to come to me two nights a week as per court order.

A minimum of two buses is required with substantial walking between bus stops. A forty minute journey each way minimum. I have explained this to my ex who sees this as an opportunity to alienate me further, as we both know that DD, who although says that journey will be fine and although it's only three trips altogether (two back to mine, one to school), will soon tire of it, and when it gets to the school day ending, and she's tired, and the choice is between walking five minutes back to my ex's or making multiple walks and bus journeys to get to mine, she is going to choose the easy option, and could you blame her?

So, what can I do? I have tried being polite with my ex and I have tried being firm. It's on record that I have opposed her school choices and for fair reason. There are schools that more central with more direct and accessible bus routes to both ends of the city (I live one end, ex lives the other). I've reminded them that they are leaving it to the last minute. They know this but are doing it purposefully. I have contacted my solicitor who is on holiday.

In the meantime, what are my rights? I have PR, but not custody. Can I make an application myself listing more reasonably-located schools? If so, how does that affect my ex's application? And just looking for advice in general. I appreciate that as I don't have custody their might not be much I can do but thought it was worth asking around whilst my solicitor is away.

I should also add that for personal reasons I am physically unable to drive and taxis across town will quickly become too expensive to sustain. I have contacted the council about support with transport, but they only offer that to the resident parent. Otherwise, the children are expect to get a public bus. This is all new to me as I grow up in a more rural location with designated school buses that took us from our homes straight to the school gates. I didn't realise I'd been so privileged until now!

Lastly, there is has been an ongoing campaign to alienate me from DD since her birth. On a few occasions we have spent months apart from wedges that have been driven between us for no good reason and it has taken a lot of work to undo the damage. So please bare that in mind when responding. This is a continuation of that alienation.

OP posts:
fedupandstuck · 27/10/2023 10:50

Your ex doesn't get to choose which school, she gets to put preferences and which school is offered depends on whether the schools are over subscribed and what each school's over-subscription criteria is. Before you make any comments to your ex or to anyone else, you need to be aware of the catchment your DD lives in, what the oversubscription criteria are for each school that might be a possibility. You need to know if they are usually over subscribed and so work out the likelihood of your DD being offered a place at that school. That's before you then consider the quality of each school and the suitability for your DD.

There is no point arguing and pushing for a school that is very unlikely to be allocated to your DD.

MangoBabyMango · 27/10/2023 10:50

lonerdottierebel · 27/10/2023 10:30

I appreciate what everyone is saying. However, my point with her going to a more central school was that it would be accessible from both homes.

Regarding friends. Absolutely, that it is very important. The current school choice means she wouldn't be going to the same secondary school as any of her primary school friends. Her primary school is actually in my area of the city (ex's choice - she was in a school more central between both homes before that but ex wanted to move her - that's a rabbit hole we could get lost down right now). I still don't expect her to go the secondary school in the same area if it will cause issues.

I do understand where people are coming from with thinking about myself, but I can only promise you all that's not the case. As I said, parental alienation is at play, and DD and I are currently maintaining a relationship only by a thread and with outside support. I am thinking about how this will make it easier for our relationship to be torn. If I didn't have such a genuine concern and with good reason considering what DD and I have both been put through already, I wouldn't be so worried. I want DD to have a healthy relationship with both parents, and so yes, that does include me, and why shouldn't it? Does DD not deserve both parents? I won't be responding to anymore accusations like this. DD and I are going through hell enough because of what my ex has been doing over the years. This isn't being bitter, it's a child and parent put under the constant threat of their relationship being torn apart. A quick Google search will explain what parental alienation is, just how severe it can become, and the things that need to be carefully considered in order for that to worsen. It is a form of abuse towards the child.

Oh dear! A Mansplainer too. 😶

Parental alienation often happens for very valid reasons.

Why don't you change your approach? Be 100% supportive of your dd's choice of preferred school and be 100% supportive of her mother managing the school application. Stop thinking of yourself as a victim that's not a very grown up thing to do, and stop focusing on this alienation thing.

Change. Be supportive. Be amenable. Be a father who puts his child first, not his needs of a relationship. Just stop.

mindutopia · 27/10/2023 10:51

Everything else considered, it sounds like it makes good sense - if it's a good school - that your dd goes to the school that is a 5 minute walk from her primary residence.

We are also in the stage of applying for schools for our dd for next year. Our closest school is a 15 minute bus ride away. If I needed to collect her, it would be a 30+ minute round trip drive for me. Our next closest school is a 10 minute drive to a bus stop and then a 45 minute bus journey. If I needed to collect her from school, that would be a 2 hour round trip for me.

It sounds like a very sensible decision to go to her local school and when she is with you, only 2 nights a week, she either learns to do the journey or initially if you think she's too young, you go and collect her like many parents need to do. Or you send a taxi for her for those two days if not convenient.

Singleandproud · 27/10/2023 10:53

Be prepared for contact to change even if you and Dds mums relationship was good. You need to be more flexible. So DD wants to do after-school clubs and doesn't want to stay at yours anymore that's fine, you do the 40 minute public transport journey, meet up with her and take her to dinner even if it's at a supermarket on a buy one get one free etc, you keep contact through video calls etc little and often, chats on whatsapp, send silly memes, have 'in' jokes - it's how teens today communicate and build relationships.

As soon as DD turned 12 I gave her completely free reign to organise her own time with her dad and she just has to let me know if it's anything out of the ordinary which could impact our plans. Midweek contact went straight away with a 40 min journey both ways, she never enjoyed sleeping over so doesn't want to do EOW and plays rugby on a Sunday so he picks her up after that or watches her if it's a proper match so she sees him weekly 12-7pm. However, they have a very positive relationship, yes, it's more uncle - niece than parent-daughter but it's what she is happy with and decided on, just because she doesn't seem him that often doesn't mean their bond has lessened it just found its own path.

Quartz2208 · 27/10/2023 10:54

How far is the central school from her primary address? What is its catchment. Is what you want actually feasible

RB68 · 27/10/2023 10:54

If she is court ordered to come to you twice a week school transport may be provided so its worth contacting the local authority about that if she is beyond 2 miles away which it sounds like she is. There may also be a child safety issue dependant on the walking route when she is on her own.

The only alternative if you desperately want her in a more central school is a specific court order to that effect. You would need to work with the local authority and your solicitor to work out what is possible.

Something a friend of mines ex did in a very contentious situation was to phone the school and register your refusal to allow her to sign up with them, he had PR and therefore there was no consent to her going therefore she couldn't go. Technically someone like social services can over rule this as not being in the best interests of the child if for e.g. its the only school in the area, but it takes time and effort. I am NOT recommending this course of action BUT it takes a long time to sort and does disrupt the childs education so its not looked on favourably

I would speak to the LA and get chatting to transport and also the school allocation team as to what the options are for you. I would also forewarn your solicitor and get the low down on getting a court specific issue order

Maddy70 · 27/10/2023 10:56

Which is the best school for your child. That is the only question that requires thought

Myfabby · 27/10/2023 10:56

You'd rather her suffer with a 30 minute journey every day to make it convenient for your 2 days of contact then a 5 minute walk to her mother's house. Really?

Iknowthis1 · 27/10/2023 10:57

It's not unreasonable to choose a school within 5 minutes walk from her main residence, assuming it's a good school.

megletthesecond · 27/10/2023 11:00

You don't have any rights. Your dd should go to the school that suits her best. If that means she can't get to your house in the week so be it. It'll be up to her when she she's you as she grows up, she'll have a busier social life from now on. As long as you aren't a dick about it she'll still want to see you when she can.

MangoBabyMango · 27/10/2023 11:00

The only alternative if you desperately want her in a more central school is a specific court order to that effect. You would need to work with the local authority and your solicitor to work out what is possible.

Who advise this sort of thing! Thats madness and not in the best interest of the child. Stop fighting, leave it and start acting like a nice, decent and reliable parent, not one who throws constant obstacles in your child's beloved mother's way. Moving to secondary is challenging enough you will be actively harming your daughter and she will suffer for the rest of her life from the trauma that selfish parenting leaves her with. Stop fighting, arguing, demanding, expecting claiming. Just be there for her in any way that fits into her life. That will be the best way to nurture a healthy relationship in the long run. You can rest assured that she will end up not wanting anything to do with you if you cause her mother grief.

Anewuser · 27/10/2023 11:02

You’re getting a hard time here OP, sorry. I don’t think you’ve said you’re a man but an awful lot of MNers hate men.

I’m guessing from your post, you have epilepsy? Hence not driving.

You won’t be able to apply for your DD secondary school placement.

Unfortunately, things will now change for you. Your child is getting to an age where she will want independence and to make her own decisions. If you want to stay in her life, you have to just support her in those choices, even if you don’t agree or they upset you.

You may be at a point where she no longer comes to you during the week but maybe she will spend more time with you at the weekend.

I wish you well.

Myfabby · 27/10/2023 11:03

RB68 · 27/10/2023 10:54

If she is court ordered to come to you twice a week school transport may be provided so its worth contacting the local authority about that if she is beyond 2 miles away which it sounds like she is. There may also be a child safety issue dependant on the walking route when she is on her own.

The only alternative if you desperately want her in a more central school is a specific court order to that effect. You would need to work with the local authority and your solicitor to work out what is possible.

Something a friend of mines ex did in a very contentious situation was to phone the school and register your refusal to allow her to sign up with them, he had PR and therefore there was no consent to her going therefore she couldn't go. Technically someone like social services can over rule this as not being in the best interests of the child if for e.g. its the only school in the area, but it takes time and effort. I am NOT recommending this course of action BUT it takes a long time to sort and does disrupt the childs education so its not looked on favourably

I would speak to the LA and get chatting to transport and also the school allocation team as to what the options are for you. I would also forewarn your solicitor and get the low down on getting a court specific issue order

Aside from your intro paragraph. This is horrible horrible advice. Disrupt the child's life to please the father and his 2 days of contact.

fedupandstuck · 27/10/2023 11:04

@Anewuser your post repeats the advice given by the men-haters here on MN... strange how "hating men" seems to be the same as giving sensible practical advice.

KyeeMaClune · 27/10/2023 11:04

I think the point you are missing is can she even get into the schools you would choose for her? Just because you want a certain school doesn't mean you will get into it. Look at the admissions criteria.

We moved for a secondary catchment and I kept my children in their original primary because I was prepared to drive every day for the next 7 years. From that primary we would not have even stood a chance of getting into the secondary we wanted them to get into, hence the very costly house move.

If your DD does get into the school closest to her Mums could you not move closer to facilitate the relationship with your DD?

Iknowthis1 · 27/10/2023 11:05

Have you considered moving to be closer to your daughter?

In your current location she's going to be commuting to you no matter which school she's in. You might feel it's less of a journey if the school is between the two locations but she's going to be commuting every single day unnecessarily. You're not being fair to her in this instance.

Chewbecca · 27/10/2023 11:05

Your second post doesn't change a thing.

It makes perfect sense to go to her closest school (if it is good and suits her). The journey to you is not that long.

Instead of fighting, channel your energies into finding solutions and making things work well between you and your daughter. She needs to see you being positive and constructive, not combative towards her mother. Being cooperative might reduce the parental alienation you fear.

MangoBabyMango · 27/10/2023 11:06

You’re getting a hard time here OP, sorry. I don’t think you’ve said you’re a man but an awful lot of MNers hate men.
😂Oh I love myself a decent man, luckily I have them in my life, my father, brother, dh and sons.

Most of us know this type of single dad from our kids' school. Op comes across as only thinking of his self perceived victimisation. What he doesn't realise is that his daughter doesn't owe him anything, least of all a relationship.

If he wants to nurture a healthy and respectful father daughter relationship, he can start by supporting his ex with her school choices. That would be a very positive first step.

jesshomeEd · 27/10/2023 11:06

Your DD is going to want to walk 5 minutes to school with her friends, of course she is!

Why not have her come to yours at weekends?

Myfabby · 27/10/2023 11:07

fedupandstuck · 27/10/2023 11:04

@Anewuser your post repeats the advice given by the men-haters here on MN... strange how "hating men" seems to be the same as giving sensible practical advice.

Thank you @fedupandstuck for articulating it so beautifully

@Anewuser I'm not sure what man hating has to do with this. The advice would be the same regardless based on who has custody and the age of the child in question. I certainly don't hate men.

The daughter should be trudging in the cold and dark( winter is here!) every day as opposed to 2 days a week when she can just walk 5 minutes home.

MangoBabyMango · 27/10/2023 11:09

Anyway, we have no idea this poster is a man, although............. the mansplaining is a bit of a give away.

Seeline · 27/10/2023 11:13

Did you go to any of the open evenings at ay of these schools?
Do you know what their ethos is?
Do oyu know what facilities they have?
What GSCEs they offer?
What their results are?
What extra curriculars they offer?
How they would fit with your DDs style of learning, interests and hobbies?
Where your DD would fit on their admissions criteria?

These are the things to look at when choosing a school - not the one to make your life easier.

Boozlebammed · 27/10/2023 11:19

If you can't drive, could you move house to be closer to your DD? Your DD to should be at a school local to the resident parent. I think you need to stop focusing so much on court orders, your DD is about to become a teen and you will need to accept that DD needs to see you on her terms rather than because she has a legal obligation, which will not make for a good relationship.

TomatoSandwiches · 27/10/2023 11:19

Your daughter does deserve a relationship with both parents however YOU will have to change something in YOUR life to accommodate that for her.
Your ex is not choosing local schools within her catchment area to alienate you.
If you can't drive for medical reasons I suggest you apply for PIP if you aren't already, it's a non means tested benefit that could help you with additional travel costs for contact days.
Also look into your local authorities threshold for free bus pass for yourself.

You completely ignored the suggestion of moving or changing contact days which are also far more reasonable changes you could make, why is that?

Lastly, I do not believe your daughter is suffering at the hands or actions of her mother in choosing a local school.

OfcourseitsaNC · 27/10/2023 11:23

I've read your posts @lonerdottierebel and have seen the horrid MN pile on. I'm sorry that's happening for you when I can understand why you're asking for advice.

My advice is to try to look objectively at what is best for your DD. My two had to catch 2 buses every day to get to and from school. But they loved the school, so were happy to endure the journey.

Your DD is at the age where she knows her own mind. A school 5min walk away sounds bliss. And is likely to be the one which she is allocated by county. When you've spoken to her about this, what does she really think? If you believe she's made her school choice as it's what your ex wants, what has lead you to believe that?

I only ask as my DD stopped seeing her dad as he was being a dick about these sorts of things. She was old enough to know her own mind. Ex accused me of turning her against him, but I loved her too much to do that. I still believe she needs both parents in her life, but she now does that with her dad via Insta chat rather than IRL. She was old enough to work out what was happening and make her own decisions about his behaviour.

I don't wish the same for you, so be very careful how you tread around this one. Talk to your DD then listen listen listen. What does she want? How can you best support that? As that's what she wants you to do, to listen then act on what she says.

All the best.