Our son has just been expelled from Sixth Form - What Now?

[JaNath]

Our son, who started Sixth Form in September, has just been expelled. Over the past few years he's done silly things, such as going onto train tracks, throwing a shopping trolley off a car park roof. None of his anti-social behaviour has ever been directed towards anyone else, and he's always done these stupid things with others.
Earlier this year, close to his GCSE exams, he took a knife into school as his way of showing some kids that were bullying him that he was "tough". He narrowly avoided expulsion then and spent the rest of the year and his exams in the isolation unit. His GCSE results were good - he's extremely bright - but could have been a lot better. His first choice A-Levels were therefore not possible, so he had to repick.
Last week he and another pupil were caught in a nearby office building, recently vacated and empty, smashing windows. It was obvious what would happen and the meeting with the head yesterday delivered the inevitable.
Our son has it rough in life; he is ASD (as is his father) and we recently discovered his puberty is massively delayed. Hormone therapy will begin in the next couple of days. Friendships have always been hard and life at home the past few years has been hellish at times, the most frequent battles centering around his only hobby and passion, videogames.
We are researching his options. Our thoughts veer toward letting him have the entire rest of this academic year off, as it were. A part-time job, 20/30 hours a week, some study and, most of all, time for the hormone therapy to kick in and he matures, in all respects (there hasn't been enough study to show whether delayed puberty has an effect on emotional maturity, but it seems a no brainer to us. He is very childish for his age).
He is under CAMHS, takes an SSRI (which helps enormously with his social anxiety) and has so, so much potential. But he's now clearly depressed, fearful and more withdrawn from us as parents than ever before.
Is there anyone out there who has been through something similar? Any and all advice is most welcome. We are at the end of our wits, tethers and anything else you care to mention.
TIA.

The age of criminal responsibility in the UK is 10. He's doing mighty well if he's done his GCSE's already and I don't know why his mother would be worrying about late puberty for a ten year old.

This behaviour is not at all uncommon no matter how many bad-tempered posters try to suggest that it is. Many teenagers go through phases of behaving in an antisocial manner. Impulsivity is part of the process as the teenage brain struggles to cope with all the changes going on. I highly recommend reading up on the teenage brain, it can be very enlightening.

Yes, the shopping trolley could have landed on someone and hurt them, yes he could have been badly hurt on the train tracks. But let's not pretend he is a delinquent through and through, and that this sort of behaviour is extreme; it's not.

It is worrying though exactly because it can be so dangerous. Oh to be able to protect teenagers from themselves.

Like a previous poster, I wondered if your son might be dealing with ADHD as well?

In all likelihood he is feeling deeply ashamed and full of self loathing. It is great that he has such caring and devoted parents, he really needs you right now.

I think your idea of part time work is a really good one. I've heard of quite a few young people with ADHD (not that your son necessarily has this) transforming attitudes and behaviour upon entering the workforce. Is he good with IT? Might he be interested in or eligible for an apprenticeship as an electrician, mechanic or engineer? If he is earning, learning and doing something productive in a more grown up environment, he may be able to shake off a lot of the immaturity.

Do be warned though that the transition to the workplace is huge for young people and they tend to find the first six months extremely tiring. So he may need to focus on just work for a few months and even then, just 20-25 hrs.

Keep in touch with the GP, keep talking to supportive friends, keep assuring him he is loved and cherished, keep guiding him by example and ensuring he knows he can talk to you even when he has messed up, and assure him that although he's lost this chance with the school that there are still many possibilities out there for him and you will support him to achieve.

He might benefit from some very specific-type therapy like breaking down a behaviour and exploring ways that might work better. Younger children do this through cartoon-like pictures. A way of helping them to imagine better outcomes, of linking behaviour and consequence.

In the end, what matters most is his health and wellbeing, and that he has a family that loves him. The marks and stuff are neither here nor there.

What use is there in berating this woman’s parenting or baying for the boy’s blood? She’s asking for help so that she can STOP said behaviours and pave a more positive future for her son.

There will be many people in society whose job it is to judge, punish, imprison etc but there also has to be someone who advocates for and champions, and guides the child’s choices when life and decision making goes off course: those people are parents.

Good luck @JaNath . Sounds tough - some very good advice on this thread in amongst the more judgmental posts!

I WAS REPLYING TO A POSTER WHO SAID HER FIVE-YEAR-OLD SON HAD BEEN TOLD HE SHOULD BE IN PRISON.

I WAS SAYING IT WAS DIFFERENT FROM THE OP'S SON.

I WAS CONTRASTING THE TWO.

I KNOW WHAT THE AGE OF CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY IS FFS.

PLEASE TRY TO READ WHAT YOU'RE RESPONDING TO. You've literally quoted it in your post. It's right there.

@the

Another rude aggressive person. There's a lot of you about.

Have you heard of the book Love bombing ? If possible, I'd take some time off work and go on an adventure together as a family to reconnect. Travel together if financially possible. Get away from the monotony of your regular life. He may need time away from formal education to decompress and reset, ready for college and A levels or whatever route he takes. Good luck. Neurodiverse children need a lot of support and empathy and it sounds like you are already doing that so carry on and ignore the uneducated lot who want to angrily point fingers.

You misspelled "sorry I was completely wrong and made a nonsensical reply because I didn't bother to read or think at all about what I was saying."

Thanks for the apology 👍

This!

sign him up for the army if he wants to try to kill someone at least learn hot to do it properly, sounds like he needs some discipline in his life.

I disagree with all those thinking it's ADHD, if it was then you probably wouldn't be describing him as extremely bright and doing really well in his GCSE's as the attention deficit part of ADHD would prevent that. He wouldn't have the concentration or focus.

With ASD your emotional maturity can be 3 years behind, and if puberty is delayed I'd imagine that could make it even worse. I'd say he's struggling socially and everything he's doing is to impress others and to desperately try to fit in. He doesn't know how to deal with situations so he does really stupid things like take a knife to school with no thought to the consequences - all he can see is he's being bullied and taking a knife will stop that. I could easily see my 16 year old thinking in that same simplistic way despite being extremely clever.

I'd say his problem here is 1) his friendship group and 2) not knowing how to handle situations. I wouldn't take him out of education, but I'd find a local college for him to continue his A-levels. He really needs that routine and stability - and to be away from the people he is currently mixing with. He may really struggle with finding a job having ASD and also with everything that has happened and being in education is the safest place for him right now. College tends to have a different vibe to school that might work for him.

At the same time I'd do a lot of talking to him about how to handle different situations - how to handle bullying, how to handle peer pressure - these are things you (or somebody) needs to gently go over and over with him to really drum it in, forget his age and handle it like a toddler, these lessons have to be gone over and over due to ASD and the emotional immaturity. But he needs to be involved in the discussion, not just lecturing him. You also need to find ways that he personally is able to handle these things (these may be different from NT kids) so you need to talk together about what he could do. What he can say to the kids doing the bullying, or maybe just say 'whatever' and walk away from them. What is and isn't a 'good' friend, talk around saying no to things. He really needs all these social lessons.

Good luck, I hope he gets back on track.

@TheSilentPicnic sorry but this sort of behaviour is very uncommon. I've worked with teenagers for a long time, and OPs son is behaving in a way that is extreme, dangerous, and uncommon.

The urge to behave this way may be common, but few teens carry it out. It does not mean he is delinquent, or bound for a life of jail and misery, but to say this is common teenage misbehaviour is not helpful.

OP my brother got into a lot of trouble at secondary school and only just escaped being expelled. He is now, 30 years later, very successful in his chosen field. In his case what helped was channelling his energies into sport. Although my parents weren't wealthy they paid for golf tuition as he was really keen on golf and he began to spend all his free time on the golf course. I'm not saying that is the answer in your son's case, but while he has time on his hands finding something he is engaged in and encouraging him to do it might keep him away from destructive behaviour and the wrong friendship circle.

It's not an easy situation and you have my best wishes. However you do need to realise the things he did were not 'silly'. Taking a knife into school is not silly. It's dangerous and he should have been expelled then.

In your dreams.

I wasn't the only one who misunderstood your post, maybe think about it.

I think the army has enough to deal with.

You're right, one other poster also posted an irrelevant and nonsensical reply after only bothering to read one line of a post that was part of a dialogue.

Only you, though, are bizarrely trying to double down on it and somehow trying to pretend you didn't make a basic error of reading in your eagerness to 'correct' someone.

Whatever. It is irrelevant to the thread, the actual meaning is obvious to anyone who bothered to read the posts, and you are making yourself look very foolish indeed. No more of this bollocks.

I'm amazed at so many really unhelpful and unsympathetic comments - I thought this was in AIBU for a moment. Mumsnet, please delete and ban these poisonous posters.

OP, you might have this moved to a mental health area of the website. I expected better from people who post in education. @Choconut 's post and several others are more helpful though.

@Choconut ! Please don’t equate ADHD with not being bright or academically capable, that isn’t how the concentration part works.

Some of the most well educated, accomplished, successful, truly ‘brilliant’ adults I have met have had a diagnosis of ADHD.

When something is interesting, or motivation levels are high, ADHD speed and hyper focus comes into its own.

Not true at all, this is very low level stuff and quite within the realms of normal teetering on dipping into delinquency. Not at all extreme. You must work in a very sheltered environment. Every neighbourhood will have young people engaging in exactly this sort of behaviour - and will have for the past 40yrs.

Good advice on this thread OP, you should listen to it rather than getting upset with posters and minimising your son's behaviour (which you were) because that won't help him in the long run at all.

The Prince's Trust have schemes that might be suitable for your son, have a word with them. They have a phone line and a live chat:

www.princes-trust.org.uk/

Cadets, although not the armed forces proper at this stage, could also be a good use of his time. Agree regarding gym and other outdoor, physically demanding pursuits.

If you can possibly afford it, try to get some private help for him such as ADHD assessment - it would be a great investment as CAHMS are overloaded, the waiting lists are long, and unfortunately sometimes not very good. Then you can use this to get the right help and college or apprenticeship placement for him in due course.

Plenty of ASD kids do not have these behaviours and take knives into school.

He needs clear boundaries more than normal kids. The fact it's been minimised and excused by parents is definitely part of the problem.

The solution has to be, in part, to point this out. It's not rude or nasty. It's essential.

He needs stronger inventions from yourself. I'd be asking questions about the company he keeps - who was he trying to impress with the knife? Who was he with when breaking windows?

Being in a new environment without this person / people might be a really good opportunity rather than a disaster.

I know that ASD kids can be almost 'put up' to do stuff by others so he's potentially vulnerable - but again that's precisely why parents of ASD kids have to do more parenting and can't step back as much as parents of their peers. They have to be 'on it' constantly.

He clearly has failed previously to make connections between actions and consequences, which I do think its a really big thing you need to work on and acknowledge.

OP this sounds incredibly hard to parent and you have my sympathies. I have not been in your situation, but for what its worth, my thoughts are:

• a break from in education while he adjusts to hormone treatment sounds wise. Hormones are going to give him huge mood swings. 🙈
• A huge part of the problem is the people he’s hanging out with. There are many teenagers who commit vandalism, carry knives etc, and they don’t all have ASD. Equally, there are many ASD teens who don’t behave this way. I’d be looking for every way I can to separate him from the rough kids who are drawing him towards criminal behaviour, and find some places where he can meet nicer people, or at least peope trying to improve their lives. I’d look at youth theatre groups, church groups, wildlife volunteer groups, and (when his hormones are better) apprenticeships particularly in nobs where he can use his body to burn up energy, like construction.

Poof. I fear OP may have disappeared.

He reminds me of a young version of my dad. He has ADHD and was so impulsive. Setting fires, blew up a bus once (no one was on it). Drunk to excess. Roller skating holding on to the back of busses etc so many dangerous things he seeked out for a thrill or just to see what would happen. School never was enough for him. The only thing that calmed him was working and earning.
I've been diagnosed with ADHD myself and so have 2 of my 4 kids.
It's hard.

When I think back to being your sons age the stuff I done was so dangerous.
But you never see it as dangerous or worrying, you're so wrapped up in the moment you can't see any risks.

As a mother now and I'm very settled in my life, I can see looking back how bad and scary my actions was and it has made me now determined to make sure my children don't follow the same paths. CAMHS was and still is shit I ended up just calming down when I met my husband and had children.
Again working for my helped as I was to tired to fuck about. You have my Sympathy OP. So many people don't understand how serious ADHD can be for some people.

My daughters reports all state, she has the worst example of ADHD they have seen in borough for years

The knife is a serious incident, but what was the school doing about the bullying? Why should be expelled and all the implications of that - because he felt trapped by bullies? That's often why teenagers carry knifes, in fear of others. There's a HUGE difference between teenagers terrified of being attacked and teenagers carrying knifes to rob, bully, coerce other teenagers. Of course its wrong, and serious, but some naunce needs to be shown.

Thankfully there wasn't a knee jerk reaction like yours.

I don't think OP is minimising, but the boys behviour is hardly hardened gangster is it for fucks sake? Where I grew up messing about on train tracks, throwing shopping trolley's into canals off buildings, usually with a few kids at the top, a few at the bottom to watch, was normal, bored teenager kicks. None of my friends ended up in prison and now all of them have respectable jobs and children. If you can't rebel as a teenager, when the fuck can you?

We're too quick to demonise children in this country, especially children who aren't wealthy. Expel a child caught with a knife whose basically a good kid, can quickly turn him 'bad'. In Glasgow, an 81 per cent fall in school exclusions coincided with a 48 per cent reduction in violence across the city.

You want knife crime to reduce, everyone does, but simply shoving kids into exclusion units doesn't solve the problem.