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Secondary education

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Original poster

GCSE maths and English - why so hard?

171 replies

Notcontent · 20/05/2022 12:00

I am all for high academic standards. But it seems to me that the approach to maths and English at GCSE is a bit puzzling.

I think the issue with maths is that the exams are set at such a high level that only the most mathematically gifted students can do the hardest questions so you end up with very low grade boundaries. Targeting so many questions at such a high level can quite off putting to many students.

For English, both English literature and English language are really quite similar in that it’s all about analysis, which seems very narrow. It seems to suit people who can just waffle on in a meaningful way, under exam conditions, but really English is so much more than that…

OP posts:
whenwillthemadnessend · 20/05/2022 12:03

Yep! Dd Just came out of maths and said it was super hard, loads of girls were crying and lots of kids saying it was the hardest maths paper that they've ever sat with mock
Papers etc. It does seem very unfair to choose this year of all years to give them a really hard paper, only hope is that they might lower the grade boundary if everyone has done rubbish. Has made me really cross

Fireflygal · 20/05/2022 12:08

Grade boundaries will be low. I think a pass is 4 or 5 and you don't need to answer all the questions correctly to get a pass.

The range of abilities across a GCSE will be signifcant so the able students need exams that meet their abilities.

Original poster
Notcontent · 20/05/2022 12:08

Yes, exactly. DD, who is excellent at maths (but not a genius), said it was really hard. I just don’t get it. I would fully expect some hard questions - but actually, the papers set up students to fail…

OP posts:
Kaftankween · 20/05/2022 12:11

My DD has also just said how hard maths was with one seemingly big impossible question. Hardest paper she’d ever done. I agree. Challenging of course but so hard that everyone feels deflated? What’s the point?

Rummikub · 20/05/2022 12:12

Was it higher or foundation maths that was difficult?

A grade 4 is a pass.

PutinIsAWarCriminal · 20/05/2022 12:13

My dd found both the English and Maths exams so far quite easy, but goodness knows I wouldn't stand a chance. There is a lower and a higher paper for Maths, which should help, and means that the kids taking the foundation paper won't get the pressure of horrendously difficult questions.

Original poster
Notcontent · 20/05/2022 12:13

Fireflygal · 20/05/2022 12:08

Grade boundaries will be low. I think a pass is 4 or 5 and you don't need to answer all the questions correctly to get a pass.

The range of abilities across a GCSE will be signifcant so the able students need exams that meet their abilities.

Yes, I agree they need to be challenging - but they are so challenging that some questions can only be solved by a tiny minority of the most able students. My dd is top set and her teacher said that even year 13 maths students struggle with some GCSE maths exam questions.

OP posts:
catsonahottinroof · 20/05/2022 12:15

I think maths is ok, as the higher paper differentiates at the top end and there is the choice of the foundation paper for those who struggle more - some will prefer it, others will prefer the higher tier knowing they'll be unable to answer lots of questions.

I completely agree about English language, it is like English language with literature - maybe there should be another option which is closer to functional skills English, or include similar topics to the A level like linguistics.

TeenPlusCat · 20/05/2022 12:16

I agree.
They really need to


  • bring back a foundation tier for English Language that is more straightforward (& doesn't have 19th C text in paper 2)

  • bring back intermediate tier for maths. then have 3 papers basic, intermediate & higher and you either sit basic+intermediate or intermediate+higher

Or they need to let lower ability pupils go straight to functional skills.
Or have 2 GCSEs for each a 'functional' GCSE and an 'academic' one. Like wales does for maths.

catsonahottinroof · 20/05/2022 12:17

I won't be able to ask dd until later how she found maths, it's her best subject though. She thought the English was ok but is sitting an unusual board - she managed to finish the paper which she doesn't usually do (her worst subject).

PeekAtYou · 20/05/2022 12:19

It's a reaction to people (media , FE and employers) saying that exams have been dumbed down too much coupled with ministers thinking that a "public school education" is what the system should be striving for so reciting Byron sort of shit.

It's scandalous that there's no tiers in English and politicians didn't have a middle tier in maths for political reasons. Angry

Rummikub · 20/05/2022 12:22

What political reasons for no intermediate paper?

TeenPlusCat · 20/05/2022 12:24

@catsonahottinroof The thing is, if you are aiming for a nice respectable 6 in maths you have to do the Higher paper. And then you are faced with a paper that you can only attempt as far as the staples. It is very disheartening.

My other issue with Engl Lang is the length of it, especially for anyone with extra time. It becomes a test of stamina rather than anything else. DD would do so much better if she had 4 x 1hrx 25% instead of 2x1hr45x25%. Rest breaks don't help, they just prolong the agony.

Rummikub · 20/05/2022 12:24

I think there is an argument for functional skills level 1/2 to be offered. Would help with confidence in those subjects and can still access options post 16 with it.

Cokehead · 20/05/2022 12:24

Another vote here for a foundation tier in English language.

Generally, as I’ve been testing DS in the run up to his GCSEs, I’ve been hugely impressed by the content of the courses. I don’t know whether it varies between boards much but I’m sure DS is doing harder stuff than I did at that age- definitely things in his maths GCSE which I’m sure I covered for A level.

OnTheBenchOfDoom · 20/05/2022 12:26

Ds2 is sitting his maths GCSE today. He is sitting the higher paper for AQA. Around 50% of that paper determines the 7-9 students so the rule of thumb in Ds's school is you have to be a comfortable 6 to sit the higher paper and not be phased by some questions being way above you. I agree with teen that there should be an intermediate paper for maths.

English should have foundation and higher papers rather than one paper aimed at all abilities. Schools should offer a functional skills paper. The grading curve will always make some students a 3 or lower for GCSE.

I do believe though that it is easier to gain more confidence and increase the grade on maths papers than English. Maths is helped with practise, there are lots of videos walking you through a problem and then examples for you to complete to put it into practise. English is more nuanced than that for both language and literature.

TeenPlusCat · 20/05/2022 12:27

I've been looking at some Victorian writing in prep for paper 2. It is so long winded and convoluted. DD will have forgotten what the start of the sentence was before she gets to the end. It is just not necessary or relevant to people trying to scrape a pass.

catsonahottinroof · 20/05/2022 12:32

@TeenPlusCat that's a good point, I remember the intermediate papers where you could get a B, I don't know why they stopped doing them.

I agree GCSEs are much harder now than when I did them, although now I've been thinking about maths and remember another option, below foundation, where the most you could get was a grade G. There was one girl in our class doing it and it looked really complicated with lots of geometry. English was definitely easier back then although can see the potential for cheating with all the coursework.

noblegiraffe · 20/05/2022 13:11

I remember the intermediate papers where you could get a B, I don't know why they stopped doing them.

Because on the Foundation paper the highest you could get was a D and the complaint was it was unfair to make children take an exam where, however well they did, they couldn’t get a pass.

The solution would have been to create a nominal C grade for highest attainers on Foundation. What actually happened was that they binned Intermediate.

Then Michael Gove came in in 2010 wanting rigour above all, and everything became more difficult (although the pass rates were kept the same so what was the point? Grade boundaries just dropped). Foundation tier maths is now about the same level as the old Intermediate Tier.

Wales either kept Intermediate Tier or brought it back, not sure.

BlueRabbitWasNaughty · 20/05/2022 13:18

Another one here that found maths hard today... he needs at least a 7, preferably higher so is now concerned.
He thinks it was much harder than all the past papers but that seems crazy considering the last couple of years. I suppose it all depends how they perform against each other (which seems a little sad).

Rummikub · 20/05/2022 13:30

Yes I remember that foundation meant highest grade of D which doesn’t seem fair.

I would like to see a step up approach. Confidence gained at every level by completing functional skills and it still has value in the real world.

ElegantPuma · 20/05/2022 13:32

English and English Literature need a foundation tier. The least able cannot even access the paper. It's like child cruelty. Bloody Michael Gove 😡

Original poster
Notcontent · 20/05/2022 13:37

BlueRabbitWasNaughty · 20/05/2022 13:18

Another one here that found maths hard today... he needs at least a 7, preferably higher so is now concerned.
He thinks it was much harder than all the past papers but that seems crazy considering the last couple of years. I suppose it all depends how they perform against each other (which seems a little sad).

@BlueRabbitWasNaughty my dd did the Edexcel one this morning and said it was really tough. She is predicted a 9 based on mocks, etc BUT this was much harder!!! Crazy considering such a huge chunk of the curriculum was during the lockdowns…

OP posts:
TeenPlusCat · 20/05/2022 13:38

With the new grading you could have:
Foundation 1-4
Intermediate 3-6
Higher 5-9

BlueRabbitWasNaughty · 20/05/2022 13:45

@BlueRabbitWasNaughty my dd did the Edexcel one this morning and said it was really tough. She is predicted a 9 based on mocks, etc BUT this was much harder!!! Crazy considering such a huge chunk of the curriculum was during the lockdowns…

Yep, Edexcel here too, hopefully it just means grade boundaries will be lower but I still can't understand it.
They're talking about pitching it between 2019 and 2020 levels so why make it so much harder?