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Original poster

DD has got a detention for using racist language

294 replies

SaveTheMockingBird · 18/11/2021 09:38

My DD who is 11and in year 7 has been in trouble at school for using racist language. She is serving a 60min detention after school today.

She has used a racist word that she probably didn't know had racial connotations, but pretty abhorrent. The other child had called her a midget during an argument (she is small in stature, only turned 11 in Aug) and she retaliated by saying a word which related to an animal considered very offensive to this boy's heritage.

The school hasn't communicated with us, just a notification from class charts, saying that she has been given a detention and a brief statement about what it's for. There has been other incidences with this boy too verging on the bullying and I fully support the school in giving her a detention.

It wasn't just her, these incidences involved her best friend too.

My question is, do I contact the school regarding this? Or just let them deal with this? I hate to see her labelled like this so early into high school and it makes me so sad. She thoroughly deserves to be punished for the bullying behaviour, but I don't think she meant to be racist.
She hadn't even had a time out in primary school and always had very positive reports with regards to behaviour, so this is very untypical of her. She is normally a very quiet well behaved child. And now the school must think she is a troublemaker.

Do I let this be or try and explain the situation to school?

Thanks

OP posts:
BIWI · 18/11/2021 16:02

FFS minimising the use of racist language/insults is NOT on.

SoupDragon · 18/11/2021 16:02

@CraftyGin

My view is that 11 year olds are learning their way in the world.

Using the terms pig or monkey can probably be explained as perfectly benign. For example, when I was a child, in my 100% white community, it would not be uncommon to call someone a pig. The term, monkey, is often used to describe a loveable rogue (especially if they are 2 or 3). This can be confusing to an 11yo.

Only she knows what her intentions were at the time. She must feel wretched, especially given the school's and her parents' reaction. She has apologised, and is taking the standard school punishment. I am sure she is in no doubt why these terms are offensive.

I think we could show some forgiveness and move on.

Have you read what she actually said?
Hoppinggreen · 18/11/2021 16:05

@CraftyGin

My view is that 11 year olds are learning their way in the world.

Using the terms pig or monkey can probably be explained as perfectly benign. For example, when I was a child, in my 100% white community, it would not be uncommon to call someone a pig. The term, monkey, is often used to describe a loveable rogue (especially if they are 2 or 3). This can be confusing to an 11yo.

Only she knows what her intentions were at the time. She must feel wretched, especially given the school's and her parents' reaction. She has apologised, and is taking the standard school punishment. I am sure she is in no doubt why these terms are offensive.

I think we could show some forgiveness and move on.

Oh bless your sweet naive heart
PAFMO · 18/11/2021 16:35

@CraftyGin

My view is that 11 year olds are learning their way in the world.

Using the terms pig or monkey can probably be explained as perfectly benign. For example, when I was a child, in my 100% white community, it would not be uncommon to call someone a pig. The term, monkey, is often used to describe a loveable rogue (especially if they are 2 or 3). This can be confusing to an 11yo.

Only she knows what her intentions were at the time. She must feel wretched, especially given the school's and her parents' reaction. She has apologised, and is taking the standard school punishment. I am sure she is in no doubt why these terms are offensive.

I think we could show some forgiveness and move on.

At 11 years old? That is some cossetted, protected from the world 11 year old who doesn't know racism is racist. She will have learned about diversity from the time she started primary school. And I'm guessing the child she called a monkey, or a pig, or whatever racist term she used wasn't white. The adults (presumably) on here minimising what this girl has done are no better than she is.
CraftyGin · 18/11/2021 16:47

Go to Holloway; do not pass Go.

SoupDragon · 18/11/2021 16:49

@CraftyGin

Go to Holloway; do not pass Go.
Yeah, because that is exactly what people are saying 😂

It's simple: don't bully someone using obviously racist language (and it is obvious) and you won't get punished for it.

BirdyBirdyTweetTweet · 18/11/2021 16:51

Nah. She just needs to suck it up. Lesson learned.

user799568149 · 18/11/2021 16:59

@stairway

Eleven year olds don’t think like adults. She may not realise that whilst it is considered ok to mock people for their height it’s not ok to mock people for their skin colour. I think you have to explain the historical and current implications of racism. For a child she might not get why one is considered worse.
OP's DD very likely intended to use the most wounding insult that she could think of. That is wrong. And I agree that, perhaps, not every 11 year old in this country understands the full context, history, and implications of the insult in question, so it would be good to explain this to her.

However... are there people on this thread who really believe that "it is considered ok to mock people for their height"?

PinkWednesdays · 18/11/2021 17:28

@SundayTeatime

All of the racism apologists have come out from under their rocks to say it’s not a big deal.

I don’t think anyone has said that, though. Because the OP didn’t say what her child actually said, that led to a lot of speculation, but once she revealed the word, then absolutely no-one has said it’s not a big deal.

Have you not read this thread after OP confirmed what her daughter said? There are still posters going on about the boy starting it and what’s being done about him, even though him calling her a midget was in the context of her bullying him.

So yes, there are many posters still trying to downplay what OP’s daughter said.

And the very fact that posters are trying to reassure OP that her dear daughter isn’t a racist and it was said in response to the victim, a 11 year old boy who is being bullied by girls, shows the real issue yet again - posters are more outraged at being called a racist, than challenging racism itself.

rrhuth · 18/11/2021 17:35

@Dontfuckingsaycheese

This is a genuine question and I’m sorry for being so uninformed- when did it actually become racist to call someone a monkey? I feel ridiculously old and out of touch here but in my day we said things like ‘cheeky monkey’. I might even have said it recently. I will try to ensure I don’t. But - when did it take on racist connotations?
I honestly don't believe you don't know that the word monkey has been a racist slur since we were children (if not before).

Here you go with an image from 1988: www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46504433

This was widely known as a racist insult when I was a child - and I grew up in an almost entirely white area.

heliosunburg · 18/11/2021 17:40

@crochetmonkey74

or does racism trump ablism

In this specific case, yes.

FYI I'm a teacher and the kids ABSOLUTELY know that this animal name is racist- it's a little fad amongst them at the moment - if you mention this animal is class, they will gasp and look at their friends - like they do with words that are rude or sound rude etc etc

Yeah, I would t think particularly highly of anyone who throws insults whether 'monkey' or 'midget'.

But the difference is she called a (black?) Person a slur directly attacking them. Whereas op's dd presumably doesn't have a disability- she's just a regular height for her age

So although she was offended by midget it's not the same as actually using someone's skin colour. I'd be proper embarrassed if my child made a comment like that, hopefully she learns

rrhuth · 18/11/2021 17:42

@SaveTheMockingBird

If my child said this, I would request a meeting and ask the school what they thought was going on because I would be very worried they were using racist terms that they were picking up from friends, or from oline - assuming there is no way they can have picked up this at home.

I would concerned, it is awful that that was said to the boy by your DD.

I remember regularly telling my younger kids 'we would not say x' and explaining why, because they do need to understand what words are unacceptable so they understand what others are saying when they say those things. Something you could do to help your DD is some serious racism education and explain about the words that get used so she doesn't do it again (accidentally or on purpose).

rrhuth · 18/11/2021 17:44

So yes, there are many posters still trying to downplay what OP’s daughter said. Yeah, you always get plenty of 'using racist language doesn't mean you are racist' posts on these types of threads Confused

MarshmallowSwede · 18/11/2021 17:59

@PinkWednesdays

Thank you for saying this!

Everyone is quick try to make sure they aren’t called racist but the actual act of being racist.. completely ignored.

And are we forgetting what the little boy must be feeling? To be a 10/11 yr old and be called a monkey(face) ? What must he be feeling?

But no.. he called her a midget so clearly he deserved that.

It amazes me how many hoops and twists people will go into in order to excuse racism.

This is a real life use case of why racism isn’t dying any time soon. It’s extremely interesting to see and I would not be surprised that any black mumsnetter would be really really disappointed to see that so many of you are minimizing.

He started it first. So he deserved to be called a vile racial slur. A child.

The children learn it from adults .. and as children are out in the world they can and do pick it up from other adults or only parents. Since we see how easy it is for adults to minimize it, then it’s no wonder why racism is alive and well.

PinkWednesdays · 18/11/2021 17:59

@rrhuth

So yes, there are many posters still trying to downplay what OP’s daughter said. Yeah, you always get plenty of 'using racist language doesn't mean you are racist' posts on these types of threads Confused
And what’s been lost on so many people is that the OP doesn’t seem that fazed about her daughter being a bully, but how dare the school give her detention for calling someone a monkey…
PinkWednesdays · 18/11/2021 18:04

[quote MarshmallowSwede]@PinkWednesdays

Thank you for saying this!

Everyone is quick try to make sure they aren’t called racist but the actual act of being racist.. completely ignored.

And are we forgetting what the little boy must be feeling? To be a 10/11 yr old and be called a monkey(face) ? What must he be feeling?

But no.. he called her a midget so clearly he deserved that.

It amazes me how many hoops and twists people will go into in order to excuse racism.

This is a real life use case of why racism isn’t dying any time soon. It’s extremely interesting to see and I would not be surprised that any black mumsnetter would be really really disappointed to see that so many of you are minimizing.

He started it first. So he deserved to be called a vile racial slur. A child.

The children learn it from adults .. and as children are out in the world they can and do pick it up from other adults or only parents. Since we see how easy it is for adults to minimize it, then it’s no wonder why racism is alive and well.[/quote]
Agreed! It’s as though being a called a racist is actually worse than being a racist…

Sirzy · 18/11/2021 18:06

Agreed! It’s as though being a called a racist is actually worse than being a racist…

5live where discussing just this yesterday, that people are so quick to try the old “I’m not racist but” way to cover their thoughts. It’s as if they know it’s wrong but still won’t accept its what they are.

ShesComeUndone · 18/11/2021 18:07

I’m embarrassed to say that I only learned this was a racist term after having children. I think I just was really out of touch and the internet wasn’t a big thing back then so I just didn’t know. It wasn’t a problem as I would never call people names anyway but I am glad that we have the internet nowadays as I am definitely more educated about racism and other issues that don’t directly affect me because of it.

I think most young people nowadays would know this though as they are much more aware of these issues through social media.

Placido · 18/11/2021 19:17

Let’s hope that this girl can now be as big as Azeem Rafiq is being right now - admitting to his own mistakes as horrible slurs he made towards Jewish people are uncovered - he says he is a different person and he has learnt and won’t talk like that again. It doesn’t detract from his own bullying, but it does show how nuanced bullying can be - it is seldom as simple as one baddy and one goody. We lived in times when even people like him who were being subjected to horrible racism, could then slur people like that on Twitter and not get called out. So how do our children navigate working out what is right and wrong. Only through us as parents and their schools constantly telling them how racist comments make people feel, even if they hear people they admire / are scared of using racist language.

NiellyNoFive · 18/11/2021 19:30

We only realised it was a racial slur after a parent complained my DS in primary school had called his son a cheeky monkey. Which up until that point I'd called my DC many times.

We all stopped using it after that though. I was mortified.

NiellyNoFive · 18/11/2021 19:38

I mean a slur in the context I've given

WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly · 18/11/2021 19:42

I did not know that monkey is a racial slur, hand on heart. Perhaps I am naive. I call my children monkeys all the time and am about to stop!

Bluntness100 · 18/11/2021 20:37

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

I did not know that monkey is a racial slur, hand on heart. Perhaps I am naive. I call my children monkeys all the time and am about to stop!
What colour are your children?
Hoppinggreen · 18/11/2021 20:43

@WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly

I did not know that monkey is a racial slur, hand on heart. Perhaps I am naive. I call my children monkeys all the time and am about to stop!
If you and your DC are white it’s fine Which you probably know
WhenZoomWasJustAnIceLolly · 18/11/2021 21:09

My children are white, and of course I don’t know whether it’s ok, or I wouldn’t have said it Confused