"We don't want you to sit with us"

[challengerequired]

Is this ever an ok thing to say? When the student in question is just sitting quietly?
Head of Year thinks it's okay - "you can't force people to be friends"

Apologies for typos, I’m not used to my new tablet yet

Twins said it much more eloquently than me, but I also do really feel for you, OP, it’s utterly heartbreaking. It’s for this reason that I’ve decided that if we don’t secure special for my son we’ll be home schooling for secondary. I just can’t put him (or me tbh) through it.

Be kind to yourself.

If I ever heard my daughter say this to another child for no good reason, I would be VERY disappointed in her.

I'm actually quite disgusted that people deem this acceptable. As someone who has spent years working with people with additional needs, I shall be bringing my daughter up to treat everyone as equal, as should be the way in life.

For people to actually be saying they think it's acceptable to tell a child he can't sit at a table for lunch, just because he isn't in their clique or whatever, is it any wonder so much bullying goes on in ways of those who need additional support.

@Tristatearea thank you. DS has had a tough time of it...but we're finally starting to see the light.

He's been rejected from plenty of peer groups. He despises football, that's him out of most groups. Thinks the boys in hooded tracksuits posing like gang members look like "complete reprobates" (and rather helpfully would point that out ). He has a bit of a superiority complex because he's realised he's very bright and it's his armour to hide behind. "I might be a lot of things, but at least I'm not stupid like you" would be his retort when others were either being deliberately unkind, or simply had lost tolerance for him. But the difference is, I teach him to deal with the rejection and look for different avenues, because (whether he can help it or not) he's usually brought it on himself.

This year, after a decade of wondering when he would have a friend who lasted more than 3 weeks, he's found his people. Four odd little bods they are. And they honestly remind me of the pythons. They game together. Make vlogs. Challenge each other to find the best crap they can for £1 in a charity shop. And girls are even starting to notice them....geek chic and too much unkempt hair seems to be in....who knew

OP, your son will get there. I know it seems like it will never happen, but it will. The more you encourage him to be himself, he will find his own little crew. Don't encourage him to attach himself to one that isn't for him, you are doing him a disservice. Help him understand that it's ok not to be everyone's cup of tea.

@TwinsAndTrifle I appreciate what you're saying but I feel you're perpetuating another myth - not all socially awkward people are ever so quirky and original and just need to find their niche and they will shine.

What is his SEN OP? Has he been diagnosed with anything in particular? Does he attend any groups or clubs out of school?

He has an undiagnosed genetic defect which causes short stature and other health issues, and he's on the spectrum

He goes to two inclusive drama clubs

@JamieLeeBee

I'm actually quite disgusted that people deem this acceptable. As someone who has spent years working with people with additional needs, I shall be bringing my daughter up to treat everyone as equal, as should be the way in life.

For people to actually be saying they think it's acceptable to tell a child he can't sit at a table for lunch, just because he isn't in their clique or whatever, is it any wonder so much bullying goes on in ways of those who need additional support.

You're raising your daughter without allowing her her own boundaries.

Woohoo so inclusive.

God help her.

I’m saddened reading some of these posts, particularly those from parents who have DC with SEN.

They don’t have to interact with him if they really don’t want to but to say ‘we don’t want you to sit here’ is cruel.

At 14, kids know what is likely to cause upset to someone. It’s not like they’re 9!

I would be a so annoyed at my DD if she said that to someone. She’s not 14 yet but I can bet my house she wouldn’t say that to someone, because she’s got too much empathy to realise it would be unkind.

Again, more so because he has SEN.

Some of the excuses on here are just crass!

@MournfulTromboneNoise so what does inclusive mean to you?

**You're raising your daughter without allowing her her own boundaries.

Woohoo so inclusive.

God help her**

I think you’ve mistaken having zero empathy for ‘having boundaries!’

It is perfectly possible to have boundaries and still be kind and treat people as equals. I work with someone with a disability, sometimes that disability is inconvenient for me ( it’s a darn site more inconvenient for him ) but I don’t get to ignore him or complain about him, I have to find a way to make it work. I also work with someone with mental health issues I don’t get to exclude him either .

The OPs situation is why inclusion doesn’t work when applied across the board. Too often inclusion just means exclusion in reality. We went the specialist school route for our ds in secondary and his confidence soared. He knows that he sometimes thinks differently from others but he also knows that this doesn’t make him a lesser person and that there are people who will value him for who he is . Five years of being sneered at and excluded was just to poor a prospect, I know we were lucky to have this option.

@TableFlowerss

I’m saddened reading some of these posts, particularly those from parents who have DC with SEN.

They don’t have to interact with him if they really don’t want to but to say ‘we don’t want you to sit here’ is cruel.

At 14, kids know what is likely to cause upset to someone. It’s not like they’re 9!

I would be a so annoyed at my DD if she said that to someone. She’s not 14 yet but I can bet my house she wouldn’t say that to someone, because she’s got too much empathy to realise it would be unkind.

Again, more so because he has SEN.

Some of the excuses on here are just crass!

TBH Tables, we know so little about the scenario to make a proper judgement. If OP's son is literally just sitting there, minding his own business and not wanting interaction from the other children then they are being unreasonable, but is that actually the case? I'm one of those SEN parents you speak about, would I want my child to make another group possibly feel uncomfortable every school day by talking to them - no I would not. It sounds like they have tried for a while and have had enough now. That doesn't make me a bad SEN mother. It's heartbreaking watching your child struggling, I've been there and got the T-shirt, but just because my child has SEN doesn't mean other children's wants and desires are ignored.

I don't think my DS is "quirky and original" and it says a lot that you are this defensive over your son. It doesn't help him in the long run.

But he has many attributes, as well as many things that I can be honest about, that prevent his peers from liking him. Whilst I love him, I have experienced many a day where I dislike him greatly. I'm the person who loves him most in the world, and some days, god knows I could merrily leave him to be raised in the woods by wolves. As for this situation....teen peers, who have to spend all day in class with him, then he follows into lunch each day and they've done their best to involve him, but their patience has reached it's end? On their behalf, I get it. So should OP. It sucks. But it's not the place of one peer group to "fix" because that's the one OPs son has chosen to attach himself too, and they can't say no because "bullying"

I doubt very much that he's simply sitting their quietly, eating his lunch then leaving them alone. I expect much more that he feels over attached and familiar after a classroom conversation about cars with one boy within the group. Perhaps he is repetitive, trying to start conversations about cars all the time, as that's all he recognises has worked, once, before. Perhaps he really encroaches on this one particular boy, who has no interest in OPs son, who simply happened to have a conversation about cars in a science lesson, once, long ago.

My point is, I have a non NT child, and I know what they can be like. It's not their fault. But it's not the other children's fault for becoming exasperated, then projecting that they are unkind, mean, etc. This isn't about non acceptance, or bullying. He's been attaching himself to them, uninvited, for some time, and they've accommodated....and now reached the point of enough. Without malice, they've said that they don't want him to continue doing this.

This absolutely shouldn't be forced. It's not how the real world works. Not everyone likes you. More people don't like non NT people, sad but true, and it's far better helping them overcome this, than fighting it. You won't win. You can't change that. I truly believe you are teaching him the wrong lessons, and it seems quite a few other non NT mums on the thread agree.

Is he receiving help with his social skills?

TBH Tables, we know so little about the scenario to make a proper judgement. If OP's son is literally just sitting there, minding his own business and not wanting interaction from the other children then they are being unreasonable, but is that actually the case? I'm one of those SEN parents you speak about, would I want my child to make another group possibly feel uncomfortable every school day by talking to them - no I would not. It sounds like they have tried for a while and have had enough now. That doesn't make me a bad SEN mother. It's heartbreaking watching your child struggling, I've been there and got the T-shirt, but just because my child has SEN doesn't mean other children's wants and desires are ignored

Yes but what’s the poor boy supposed to do? Be socially isolated because no one wants him I’m the vicinity.

I know some children can be hard work but those with SEN are clearly often vulnerable. The NT DC should really have more empathy.

Yes, he’s not their ‘problem’ or responsibility, but the school are failing the poor boy. This is why there should be option of schools specifically for children with SEN and not just profound/multiple SEN, because this is the epitome of what can happen to those poor kids!

Either segregated and made to feel worthless at best ir bullied at worst…

It’s heartbreakingly sad. If parents, teachers and the media, focused on teaching kids to be inclusive of everyone, the world would be a better place.

All the emphasis on how people are perceived on social media and how popular they are and how beautiful they are and the ridiculous celebrities that the kids look up too…

That’s what’s wrong with the world. Once poor boy isn’t even allowed to sit down 😔

OP You need to focus your attention on getting your ds into clubs. If the HUB isn't working for him, why not? I have two children with ASD and agree that you cannot force children to be friends or even friendly with your dc. Apart from anything else, it wouldn't work if they were only tolerating him. Let's say the teachers tell them they must welcome him at lunchtime in the dining hall. Then they get up to leave and he follows. What then? At some point they will tell him he isn't welcome. They either like him for who he is or they don't. This is not the same as playing sandcastles in reception. Your dc needs to form relationships with people on the same wavelength as him. This means finding groups for young people with similar interests as him and making use of the HUB for the times when there is nothing going on.

Tableflowerss You seem to be talking about what the world should be like rather than what it is. If you know anything about older children and teenagers then you will know that they will not hang around with people they feel empathy or pity for. They will not pretend to like the OP's son because he is vulnerable. This will continue to be the case as he becomes an adult. I haven't noticed the adults I work and live alongside to be any more inclusive than teens, they just hide their lack of interest better perhaps. It may well be that the world should be welcoming and inclusive and empathetic but the fact is that it isn't.

poor boy isn’t even allowed to sit down

Please. He's been "allowed" to sit down with them for a long time now. Uninvited, but they've not said anything.

Whatever isn't working with the dynamic ( if anything like my DS, it will be generally being irritating, very immature in comparison to peers, attention seeking) has caused the particular group to say, enough.

They are NOT stopping him from sitting literally anywhere else. They do not have to accommodate someone who they have tried with, but can't anymore. They aren't bullying or excluding by that. And it's certainly not what I teach my non NT son.

@cansu

Tableflowerss You seem to be talking about what the world should be like rather than what it is. If you know anything about older children and teenagers then you will know that they will not hang around with people they feel empathy or pity for. They will not pretend to like the OP's son because he is vulnerable. This will continue to be the case as he becomes an adult. I haven't noticed the adults I work and live alongside to be any more inclusive than teens, they just hide their lack of interest better perhaps. It may well be that the world should be welcoming and inclusive and empathetic but the fact is that it isn't.

You’re right but why is it like that?! Because many people focus on the superficial things in life to validate themselves!! That’s why.

@TwinsAndTrifle

poor boy isn’t even allowed to sit down

Please. He's been "allowed" to sit down with them for a long time now. Uninvited, but they've not said anything.

Whatever isn't working with the dynamic ( if anything like my DS, it will be generally being irritating, very immature in comparison to peers, attention seeking) has caused the particular group to say, enough.

They are NOT stopping him from sitting literally anywhere else. They do not have to accommodate someone who they have tried with, but can't anymore. They aren't bullying or excluding by that. And it's certainly not what I teach my non NT son.

I didn’t say he was being bullied did I?!

So what would you do if your son was feeling completely isolated? Tell his to toughen up and that’s life?

As I’ve said, it’s not the other kids issue no but it’s still not particularly kind.

The school should be supporting him more, really. It’s not fair on anyone to just leave a student struggling socially to their own devices or rely on the goodwill of one group of teenagers.

They aren't wanting to have lunch in peace because they've been brainwashed by a superficial life

They just want their lunch with their friends. They aren't friends with this boy. Additional needs, or not. He attaches himself to them every lunch time and it's becoming too much for them. They aren't being malicious. There are many other children he could sit with. It is not their duty to put his needs above their own.

To be fair the OP did say that he doesn’t have anywhere that he feels comfortable and has to wander at lunchtime on his own . That’s not acceptable.

I agree that the world cannot change for children with social difficulties and they have to learn to cope but I do think that people should learn to meet them halfway.

Surely we should strive for a better world rather than just accepting the ‘dog eat dog’ model. Would it be ok to ask someone to move because they were gay or trans or of a different ethnic background or because they had no limbs or were deaf; no it wouldn’t . But because their brain is wired slightly differently it’s suddenly ok to tell them to push off .

In my experience teens can be very empathetic and most will give you a lecture on the theory of inclusivity, surely this is a learning experience that inclusivity sometimes involves hard work or doing something which is difficult. It’s not just about talking the talk you have to walk the walk.

@TwinsAndTrifle

They aren't wanting to have lunch in peace because they've been brainwashed by a superficial life

They just want their lunch with their friends. They aren't friends with this boy. Additional needs, or not. He attaches himself to them every lunch time and it's becoming too much for them. They aren't being malicious. There are many other children he could sit with. It is not their duty to put his needs above their own.

You’re right - but still….. it’s not particularly kind is it?!