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Secondary education

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I feel so angry reading 'Everyone's Invited' website about rape culture largely at private schools

232 replies

Bouledeneige · 26/03/2021 00:02

So I read the Dulwich College post and now the allegations about Highgate School on Newsnight. There are fulsome letters to both schools governors published online. They make for heartbreaking and stomach churning reading. I am so angry. I've just read the 'Everyone's invited' website and I can see how entrenched misogyny, rape culture, slut shaming, homophobia and racism are in the named school. - mostly private but a few selective.

And underling them all is a powerful suggestion that school leadership is all about 'boys will be boys', reputation management and 'there's two sides to every story'. So traumatised female students are forced into silence and reduced to walking the corridors with their abusers with lots of mockery and slutt shaming accompanying them. Its so disgusting - it is beyond anything that can be excused. Who on earth wants our sons to be recruited into this misogynistic and coercive rape culture or our daughters abused and living in fear of it?

I've stated my views on other threads. My kids went to a not so perfect state school in London. The big difference to these accounts is that they experienced a very 'woke' and 'right on' school culture that demonstrated a zero tolerance culture and empowerment of the female students. They were so empowered they actively and powerfully called out sexist, racist and homophobic behaviours and the perpetrators - boys - were called to account formally and informally. It was not a perfect school at all - there was drugs, sexual behaviour and bullying but the culture of the school was so zero tolerance it went beyond a few PHSE chats it was inculcated in the ethos of the whole school. the predominant culture was mature female and diverse voices,, backed by teachers and the leadership of the school articulating a mature and equitable world. To be fair I think the boys followed behind.

But I'm not focused on my DC's experiences. I'm absolutely choked that the Harvey Weinstein, rape assertive power dynamic is prospering in school environments. Its disgusting. I hope there is a root and branch review and parents start asking about the character that private and selective schools engender |not just the results. There's an old adage that a[rents of boys would prefer them to be civilised by being schooled alongside their female contemporaries but that girls do better in all female environments.

It is such a joke when we talk about equality in work environments when so many women have been exposed to these brutish rapey school environments. We will never change society if we don't change education. And we have to more actively prepare our young men for decent and egalitarian behaviour to women and our young women to be empowered to be empowered and seek retribution. But in the end it will be leadership in schools that have a primarily male culture that makes the biggest difference investigating and punishing out sexist and abusive behaviour and treating perpetrators in the same way as students accused of drugs offences. And secondly, peer pressure amongst young men at parties, on school buses and in classes that really calls out bad behaviour.- this is not who we are as men. It really, really matters. And parents can't leave it to someone else. They need to actively avoid school environments with toxic cultures and probe how they exert a zero tolerance egalitarian culture. Take action, remove your money and change the economy of private schooling.

OP posts:
Abitofaproblem · 28/03/2021 17:18

@happywombles
I have to admit I am really shocked. That said, I did not grow up in this country and live on the other side of London, so my knowledge of these schools are limited to websites/Mumsnet/league tables. I am not opposed to private schools or single sex schools, they got to be judged on individual basis, just like any other schools.

One thing I also noticed, is that a lot of the named schools starts from prep age and some of these boys might have been in the same school for a long time. The schools probably could have done more to nip behavioural problems in the bud and establish a better culture.

Legoninjago1 · 28/03/2021 17:20

@Shinealightonit

I am a state school student. You are all nuts if you think this doesn’t go on in state schools - myself and all of my friends have many stories. It’s hard to speak out as everyone would know who we are and our lives wouldn’t be worth living - We don’t have the protection of wealthy parents and newspaper coverage. Seriously wake up and think about why state school girls are less likely to come forward than private school girls. We need to be addressing this problem together as one society otherwise nothing will change.
Best post I've read on the subject. Says it all. Thank you.
alongtimeagoin2019 · 28/03/2021 17:29

Not shocked at all by any of it to be honest- more shocked that people think its only confined to private schools.
3 nephews at a boys only comp- they say a certain group of boys act the same there.
Friend teaches at a mixed rural comp and her 3 kids go there as well - same issues.
Relatives in Switzerland and Denmark- same at their kids schools. The girls have to put up with all sorts of stuff.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 17:35

@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment!

alongtimeagoin2019 · 28/03/2021 17:43

[quote happywombles]@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment![/quote]
I think it's only on mn that those assumptions are made on state schools. Most people realise there are good and bad of every type of school and different schools suit different children (if one has the luxury of choice).
Certainly lots of people I know made choices between the 2 based on lots of factors, not that they necessarily thought they were 'better' just because they were private.

happywombles · 28/03/2021 17:54

c'mon - why are people paying 25-30k per year for a private school in London. It is because they think of them as better - are concerned about gangs in state schools for their little boys, think it's the only way their kid will get into the right unis etc. I've been around London long enough. It doesnt take too much time to figure out people's reasons for going private. Parents in SW/W/N London very much do think quite badly about the local comps. So it's nice to be reminded that yes bullying and sexual harassment absolutley does happen everywhere

Legoninjago1 · 28/03/2021 18:05

[quote happywombles]@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment![/quote]
Because of course you should assume that. I always have. The behaviour at DC sounds utterly vile and it's very good news that it's being addressed. But this relentless sensationalised focus on the private / state debate is taking the focus off where it should be and make little sods like the boy who tried to force his finger up inside my niece at her London comp, breathe a lot more easily than he should be.

Oohhhbetty · 28/03/2021 18:08

@Legoninjago1 I had 2 boys force fingers inside me in the common room of my top boarding school at the same time. Then tell all their friends about it. It was great ‘bangs’. They called me ugly fat moose and I developed an eating disorder. Boys like this are everywhere but when you board or have evening activities at school you are so much more vulnerable to it.

Oohhhbetty · 28/03/2021 18:09

Bants not bangs.

Legoninjago1 · 28/03/2021 18:10

[quote Oohhhbetty]@Legoninjago1 I had 2 boys force fingers inside me in the common room of my top boarding school at the same time. Then tell all their friends about it. It was great ‘bangs’. They called me ugly fat moose and I developed an eating disorder. Boys like this are everywhere but when you board or have evening activities at school you are so much more vulnerable to it.[/quote]
Yes I agree. That is horrific. Sorry that happened to you too. And when nothing is done about it, the only hope you have is karma.

Oohhhbetty · 28/03/2021 18:13

No chance of karma, these boys were protected by the golden bubble of wealth and powerful parents. No doubt the fathers were bullies like the sons, with very good connections. We learnt our place like generations before us. I admire today’s generation of girls at these top schools so much, speak up girls speak up, we are listening and we are with you.

lalafafa · 28/03/2021 18:22

Money and Misogyny

Elij00 · 28/03/2021 19:53

I see a few people upthread are asking why Parents choose to send their kids to All Boysl Schools? They do so because thousands of Boys across the country prefer the sanity and sanctity of an All Boys educational environment up to GCSE Level at the very least. They can then choose to transfer to a Mixed Environment for A Levels if they so wish. Not forgetting on the Academic front, All boys schools aren't fairing to bad too as I see a lot of All Boys Independent and Grammar Schools on the League table.

firedog · 28/03/2021 22:51

Wealth can bring arrogance. Entitlement. Boys who are never brought down a peg or two. All boys together. Untouchable.
I'm sure it's a big issue in state schools but the arrogance I've seen from men who came through this system is horrendous

RoseAndRose · 28/03/2021 22:54

The founder of the website has just been interviewed on BBC news, and says that accounts continuing to arrive, and she would no longer characterise this as a private school issue. It's universal

PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 00:19

It was never ever going to be just in private schools. It’s about how boys view girls. Money is besides the point. It’s all about attitudes. Are all sex offenders privately educated? Of course not.

At least girls in girls’ schools don’t have to of up with any boys behaving badly during their education. I would send a boy to a boys’ school. No problem but they would come from a background where women are respected. Parenting is important too.

Embra · 29/03/2021 00:46

Very interesting with all the development in gender equality why boys and girls still have exams in this country at different age! Only in uk I think this happens out of all Europe.

dcb2 · 29/03/2021 08:51

@PresentingPercy

It was never ever going to be just in private schools. It’s about how boys view girls. Money is besides the point. It’s all about attitudes. Are all sex offenders privately educated? Of course not.

At least girls in girls’ schools don’t have to of up with any boys behaving badly during their education. I would send a boy to a boys’ school. No problem but they would come from a background where women are respected. Parenting is important too.

I agree with this. I've read the accounts on EI and the behaviour of the boys mentioned is utterly appalling. I'm glad the police are investigating and hope the perpetrators are brought to justice.

But I also want to counter some of the generalisations about private school boys being entitled, arrogant and disrespectful towards girls. My two sons go to an all boys independent school. I can't speak for outside of school activities and for all schools, but there is close scrutiny of behaviour by our school and a level of discipline that, if anything, is perhaps overly strict for teenagers. Ditto for parental scrutiny, I don't recognise "absent" parenting as the norm in our school, quite the opposite.

Many boys at our school (Greater London) come from wealthy backgrounds but don't come across as arrogant or entitled. They're aware that they're lucky to be at the school and the importance of being humble and not judging people by how well off they are. In the same way, parents also have a crucial role to play in how their sons treat the girls they meet and their attitudes towards women in general.

I'm not naive enough to think that all private school boys are angels. The accounts show that not to be the case. But making this into a solely private school issue isn't helpful, it can happen in any school. It's also not fair to the vast majority of private school pupils who aren't entitled, arrogant and disrespectful towards women. I also hope that shining a spotlight on the experience of these teenage girls results in steps being taken to safeguard them in the future.

Poorlykitten · 29/03/2021 09:55

@Oohhhbetty that is truly awful. I’m so sorry. Yes, you can’t escape from it as easily if you are boarding. 😞 Horrific.

firedog · 29/03/2021 10:05

@Embra

Very interesting with all the development in gender equality why boys and girls still have exams in this country at different age! Only in uk I think this happens out of all Europe.
?? Exams aren't gendered??
starray · 29/03/2021 10:12

[quote happywombles]@Legoninjago1 am going to engage you on that. what do you mean by this is the best post? Am not against the post - but I dont get your comment.

The difference between state/private schols within this narrow debate is precisely that people already make the assumption that state schools are bad - educationally, in terms of bullying, knives, violence etc....but private ones are good. The point of the campaign is to break that myth and say - no - this isnt true.

So yes, lets assume that private ones are no better than state ones i.e. they are just as much full of bullying, violence and sexual harassment![/quote]
I didn't realize that the point of the campaign was a state versus private schools debate, or to prove that one kind of school is better than another.
I thought the point of the debate was to support women's rights.
Seems like some posters are just rubbing their hands in glee at the "fall" of private schools.

PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 10:34

Of course. Just like the newspapers. It’s news when it’s private schools. Now we find over 90% of the allegations are in state schools. That’s no great surprise to most of us. Since when were all sexual crimes committed by private school DCs? Most of the ones we read about are more the product of an entitled upbringing in terms of attitude. Entitled boys who don’t respect girls are everywhere.

Legoninjago1 · 29/03/2021 10:37

Exactly @starray and @PresentingPercy It makes me nervous that boys in state schools might be resting easy and continuing their behaviour because the spotlight is stuck on a handful of big name schools.

ListeningQuietly · 29/03/2021 10:55

@Embra

Very interesting with all the development in gender equality why boys and girls still have exams in this country at different age! Only in uk I think this happens out of all Europe.
What are you on about ?
PresentingPercy · 29/03/2021 11:47

Well more boys take 13 plus exams to get into boarding schools I guess. However the co-ed schools offer these exams to girls too. So I cannot see there is any great difference in exams.