I feel so angry reading 'Everyone's Invited' website about rape culture largely at private schools

[Bouledeneige]

So I read the Dulwich College post and now the allegations about Highgate School on Newsnight. There are fulsome letters to both schools governors published online. They make for heartbreaking and stomach churning reading. I am so angry. I've just read the 'Everyone's invited' website and I can see how entrenched misogyny, rape culture, slut shaming, homophobia and racism are in the named school. - mostly private but a few selective.

And underling them all is a powerful suggestion that school leadership is all about 'boys will be boys', reputation management and 'there's two sides to every story'. So traumatised female students are forced into silence and reduced to walking the corridors with their abusers with lots of mockery and slutt shaming accompanying them. Its so disgusting - it is beyond anything that can be excused. Who on earth wants our sons to be recruited into this misogynistic and coercive rape culture or our daughters abused and living in fear of it?

I've stated my views on other threads. My kids went to a not so perfect state school in London. The big difference to these accounts is that they experienced a very 'woke' and 'right on' school culture that demonstrated a zero tolerance culture and empowerment of the female students. They were so empowered they actively and powerfully called out sexist, racist and homophobic behaviours and the perpetrators - boys - were called to account formally and informally. It was not a perfect school at all - there was drugs, sexual behaviour and bullying but the culture of the school was so zero tolerance it went beyond a few PHSE chats it was inculcated in the ethos of the whole school. the predominant culture was mature female and diverse voices,, backed by teachers and the leadership of the school articulating a mature and equitable world. To be fair I think the boys followed behind.

But I'm not focused on my DC's experiences. I'm absolutely choked that the Harvey Weinstein, rape assertive power dynamic is prospering in school environments. Its disgusting. I hope there is a root and branch review and parents start asking about the character that private and selective schools engender |not just the results. There's an old adage that a[rents of boys would prefer them to be civilised by being schooled alongside their female contemporaries but that girls do better in all female environments.

It is such a joke when we talk about equality in work environments when so many women have been exposed to these brutish rapey school environments. We will never change society if we don't change education. And we have to more actively prepare our young men for decent and egalitarian behaviour to women and our young women to be empowered to be empowered and seek retribution. But in the end it will be leadership in schools that have a primarily male culture that makes the biggest difference investigating and punishing out sexist and abusive behaviour and treating perpetrators in the same way as students accused of drugs offences. And secondly, peer pressure amongst young men at parties, on school buses and in classes that really calls out bad behaviour.- this is not who we are as men. It really, really matters. And parents can't leave it to someone else. They need to actively avoid school environments with toxic cultures and probe how they exert a zero tolerance egalitarian culture. Take action, remove your money and change the economy of private schooling.

I don’t think a unified inspection regime would make much difference. They both look at the legal safeguarding process in school and how schools dealt with complaints that come forward. One of the issues for many schools is that the girls have not come forward, until now.

There needs to be clarification about what happens at parties. Schools can have “bringing the school into disrepute” in their list of misdemeanours but they need some evidence of this to permanently exclude. Far more difficult to get at a party. School discipline is not a court of law, so probability is good enough. Incidents in school are more clear cut. In the year 18/19, 20 secondary pupils in every 10,000 were permanently excluded. 7500 pupils across all schools. Expect to see greater emphasis on sexual assaults and misogynistic behaviour in behaviour policies and strong action taken.

The big issue here is also dads and home culture. What is it like at home? Boys often are entitled and it runs in families. “Boys will be boys” is applied to all boys, wherever they are educated. Excuses are made for them and I think schools will soon be making it clear that there will be no tolerance of poor behaviour towards girls so some parents need to wake up when parenting boys.

@Dillydaffy

State schools under local authority control have to deal much more seriously with these allegations than fee paying schools do hence the fact that some of these schools were able to push allegations under carpet. Just can’t happen in state schools - once they are reported the process is completely transparent, pupils put in isolation units whilst enquiry happens and police contacted. Time for ofstead to scrutinise fee paying sector.

This is very true and important to make note of. The schools were negligent in not dealing with the matters appropriately when they happened. Parents were also negligent either in their lack of knowledge or knowledge and ignoring it. Equally, I understand parents of private school kids getting defensive and feeling they are being attacked for their choices. However, much of this criminal behaviour is about entitlement. Boys feeling entitled to behave this way within their peer group. Private school kids, parents, and teachers often have a sense or a feeling of entitlement. That they are giving the best education, that they are the best without any real knowledge of what they are comparing themselves to sometimes. There is real ignorance there.

My kids have had a mix of both private and state. So I have experienced state and then private for 2 of mine until the end of primary and then opted for state secondary for all. In South London. I know plenty of parents at DC and the other privates in the area. The amount of entitled comments I received about my choice (especially since I turned down places at JAGS, ALLEYNS, DC) was astounding. Literally teachers and parents saying, well if you care about your child why wouldn't you give them the best. That is an entitled way of thinking. And if the teachers and the parents are saying it, you better believe the kids are thinking it and eventually believe it too. I know they did, because of what they said to my own children in the playground in year 6. So...I think this a real time for some self-reflection. I would never say this only exists in private schools, but the way it has been dealt with seems to be married to the idea of being entitled to get away with it. And that is a big problem.

“This isn't just a private school issue”

I think safeguarding is often much better as schools will work in partnership with local police and councils about safeguarding and families whereas in private schools it is just left to the school and there is societal pressure not to go to the police.

Also in working class communities boys know they may get a kicking from the girls older relatives.

The law regarding safeguarding applies to all schools. It’s not entirely known if any school brushed allegations under the carpet if they happened in their premises. In fact, you might wonder why the parents of the girls didn’t go to the police if everyone knew what was happening. My guess would be they didn’t. All parents could be complicit in covering this up. However there is no difference between safeguarding in private schools and safeguarding in state schools. The policies should be more or less the same. Maybe parents in private schools don’t ask to see them or they are not on their web sites?

@PRESENTINGPERCY There are different complaints procedures. It can be difficult to complain about some things at state schools as well, especially bullying. But, there are more protections in place for the person making the complaint within the state sector and with Ofsted.

I can attest that, when my son was viciously beaten up in a stairwell in a state school, by a child who was 11, the head at the time asked me not to call the police, which was really out of order, as it was a serious assault. And the child was over 10. The police should have been involved.

Did the girls complain to their school? That would be interesting to know.

Equally many girls and women do not come forward during the time of sexual assault because of the stigma that it can carry. They bury it, especially if they are doing well at school. The trauma of it can be delayed and only once they begin dealing with that trauma and breaking it down are they able to say it out loud and own what happened to them.

I spoke to my DD about this recently as I read the threads on here she goes to a normal state comprehensive and is in year 10. She said that there are jokes and silly comments from boys and some boys do make rape jokes. She says that she keeps away from those types of boys but it's there all the same.

However she did say she was not aware of any groping or inappropriate touching or worse in the school that she goes to with anyone that she knows of, and there has been no gossip going around of that nature. Which is reassuring for her, my son goes to the same school and I have been drilling into him that rape jokes are not appropriate and I dont want to hear him using the word unless it's the right context.

I guess in some ways we are lucky that it is a decent school and it has not escalated any further however I still feel that these comments and jokes need to be stamped out as it's the stamped out as it's a huge issue and culture

UnFortunately however it is an extremely large Pandora's box to deal with and I imagine fuelled by the easy access to porn social media and also children far too young playing inappropriate computer games such as grand theft auto I know my son who is 13 has friends that were allowed to play grand theft auto from a very young age and he is still not allowed to play much to his disgust. I have explained to him that I'm not happy with the misogynistic game content and I don't care what his friends do but he is not allowed.

I really don't know what the answers are but I would imagine we have to start from the very bottom and at a very young age

I have no experience of private schools, but the special measures state school I attended was incredibly woke in terms of the students' attitudes.

@Notenoughsleepmumof3 Agree 100%. Bullying has been going on for decades in schools and never really gets resolved. Most of the serious cases end up with the victim leaving the school, which is is crazy! This is a whole different level, these poor girls. Even as adults I think we sometimes brush off things too easily in order to keep the peace, imagine being a young girl and deciding that was the best option. I am glad they are speaking up and I sincerely hope the schools pay attention and do something about it. Unfortunately, I think they will come up with policies/processes/in-house care, which actually means nothing will really be done.
In these cases, I think any allegation should be a direct exclusion from school. In sends out a clear and direct message. Unless there are repercussions, these incidents will carry on. Just as bullying has for decades and left adults scarred.

You cannot exclude a child on allegations alone. There has to be some evidence of you could have malicious allegations. As some DC do against teachers. The parents could get lawyers involved and win if there is no investigation. As I have said, there does not need to be the level of proof required in court but someone accusing another child should not lead to immediate permanent exclusion. It must be investigated in accordance with the law on exclusion from school.

I strongly suggest a number of posters should read a safeguarding policy too. It is not the same as bullying. There are procedures laid down and external agencies involved. This is because sexual assault is criminal. Safeguarding is taken seriously in all schools if complaints are made. Parents can go to the police if they wish with their DDs and make criminal allegations too. Anyone can go to the police regarding assault. A school cannot stop you.

I can see schools have taken a light touch regarding this and it will change now. Some Boys need to be urgently Re-educated.

The news this morning is that Ofsted and ISI are doing unannounced inspections. That the police are asking for girls to come forward to give evidence. So there is some action.

This gives some details. Cannot fit everything in but there is action. However Safeguarding procedures are key.

Of course it isn’t solely a private school issue but logically you do wonder why private schools, with all the increased resources available to them, with their higher staff/pupil ratios, with fewer pupils from vulnerable backgrounds etc - all those advantages over state schools and they still can’t do better?

Or do they just not see it as important as getting all those A* and Oxbridge offers?

The Met police themselves have said they have less involvement with private schools as compared to state schools (see today’s Observer). Ofsted only inspect around half of private schools.
So I don’t think it’s accurate to say that all schools have external scrutiny to the same extent.

Schools should have a Multi Agency Referral form as part of their safeguarding procedures. State and private schools. The referral process is the same. There are between 5 and 9 times more DC in state schools. You would expect referrals to be greater from state schools due to the number imbalance. The Police cannot possibly say whether schools have not referred cases just yet. They haven’t investigated anything. The LADO for each authority would have more knowledge.

It’s true that most Safeguarding looks at the relationship between adults and pupils. However the legislation can be used for other inappropriate activity. It’s likely the schools have not recognised this. I would say the government will be altering the requirements of safeguarding to clearly spell out its sexual complaints of any nature and committed by any person, adult or DC.

ISI is external scrutiny. However I think they can be very swayed by the gloss of a school. They cannot find incorrect safeguarding if no girl reports anything. I accept some have and these should have been considered by isi to ensure the policy works. ISI used to give a lot of notice regarding visits. Not sure if they do now, but they should be the same as Ofsted in all respects.

i think that is in part a private school issue because these boys keep being told how special they are and lets be honest for a teenage boy being special is very closely related to sex. It's also a terrible idea to send boys to an all-boys school - it means they only ever see girls are sisters or sex objects with nothing in between.

but this has been the same way for ever.....why are people surprised

Saying this is a private school issue is ridiculous.
This is a societal issue caused by men and boys.
Not a special 7% of men and boys with the other 93% behaving appropriately.

i think that is in part a private school issue because these boys keep being told how special they are and lets be honest for a teenage boy being special is very closely related to sex. It's also a terrible idea to send boys to an all-boys school - it means they only ever see girls are sisters or sex objects with nothing in between.

That's simply not true.

@HelloMissus - it's about a sense of entitlement, specialness and the idea that you are somehow privileged....often when it comes to teenage boys this does translate to sexual misconduct. So no it is not about these schools being private but about them instilling this sense of entitlement in boys. we often think this is a really good thing - i.e. confidence, competitiveness, wanted to get ahead etc...but in the current culture realistically what do teenage boys want to most get ahead in....?

This affects ALL schools

and safe spaces for girls - properly Sex segregated toilets and changing rooms
should be available to ALL pupils

maybe but if I chat to DD and her friends - and drawing on my experience in SW London in the 90s - private boys schools were/are much much worse than the local coms. The sense of entitlement and superiority in the private ones was unparalleled in my local comp.

@happywombles
Does your DD socialise with both boys at these private boys school and boys at the local comp? I am interested in how she comes to the conclusion that the private boys' behaviour are way worse.

My husband went to one of the very famous boys schools recently included in these claims.
He says he didn't witness anything along those lines whilst there. But did mention the very big drug and bullying issues they had. ( many expelled for drugs) some of his school friends are quite frankly arogent entitled and sexist. I will exclude DH in that description as he was probably a complete nerd at school. He also was not great with girls ( I should know as I remember him at 21). It also took me a few years to readjust his very warped view of the world. I was opened mouthed with horror at some of his early views of society!
In comparison I attended a awful girls school ( just the usual girls school bitchyness none of these issues) and then a local mixed comprehensive ( good area) I never experienced any bad behaviour from the boys, mild teasing but not of a sexual nature was as bad as it got. They were all respectful and worked happily alongside girls all are decent men today!

We send our sons to mixed state schools as we want well rounded decent humans who see women as equal when they grow up. I also know they are bright enough to achieve this anywhere without spending 41k a year each. I don't know why anyone thinks segregation is a good idea?

My daughter, and four other girls were sexually assaulted by a boy at their school. It went to court, three of the girls testified, two gave statements but were too scared to testify.

The parents (one was a lawyer) dragged it out before it got to court - it took over two years. Their (no doubt very expensive) barrister kept cancelling it, to call new witnesses, on some technicality or another.

The judge criticised the length of time it had taken to get to court - although he described the girls as “credible witnesses” there were a few minor discrepancies in the stories. So the nice middle class boy in a suit is free to attack again. And he will. The police were shocked that he got off.

The assault on my daughter happened at a party. She hasn’t been to a party since. She suffers from extreme anxiety and depression and has had masses of counselling, none of which seems to have had much effect.

How did the school deal with it? Badly at first - the boy was allowed to stay at school and continued his harassment until the police intervened and told the school that they had to suspend him on safeguarding grounds. Most of the other boys were very supportive of the girls, and the boy was very much isolated and ostracised before he was suspended.

Some of the attacks were particularly vicious. I have no doubt that he will attack again.

@Abitofaproblem she is at the local comp but where we live lots of her friends go to well the usual suspects in SW London to be fair she's often friends with their sisters etc and gets invited because they are long-standing friends, she's a girl ..the usual. That was also my personal experience. And am not being goady - am genuinely surprised that people are that shocked. I mean lots of the parent who send their kids there - would themselves have been to a private school. Do they just not remember? Am not in any way defending that behaviour but there's a reason why DS will never in a million years be sent to a private boys school. It's not about the academics but the rest of it. I want him to learn humility not entitlement.