Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

It's going to depend on the child, the school, and the particular year they move into.

School I was at, our year was regarded as very sweet friendship wise. You could divide the groups of girls roughly into 3 groups, and within those groups they divided further.
But the groups were generally nice to each other as well. Yes there were nasty moments and fallings out, but on the whole the girls got on well enough across the year group. There were 3 or 4 girls who were very good at looking out for new people/people on their own and making sure they were okay and inviting them in.
Dsis' year, a couple of years older, was a nightmare. The girls swapped friendships with lots of drama, and a couple of really catty ones who really did like to play "Wendy" and divide up any friendships, and pick on anyone they perceived as different.

I think if you ask around there will be an equal percentage of happy/unhappy at private or state.

@flourandeggs, I’m sure I stereotype too and like you, find some of the language about State school pupils and how Private is infinitely better from some quarters pretty annoyance inducing and at odds with our lived experience.Judging by titles of the posts here on the Secondary section, there is a predominance of Private parents and I’d agree whole heartedly with a comment you made up thread about how some of the comments are driven by justifying the spend (a London friend of mine is paying an eye watering just over £90K a year for her 3 on top of their large mortgage). I’m quite sure I’ve done quite a bit of justifying of our choices too! Thanks for the best wishes - a bad day after I lost a big work contract and DDog (who has IBD) was in pretty continuous explosion at both ends. Roll on 2021!

@Diddlysquatty, DD2 has actually had a good term since deciding to branch out very early on and spend her time with this new group of girls. In an ideal world obviously our DC would make a good group of friends in Year 7 straight off but that so rarely happens and they have bumps and wrong turns along the way - as parents you live that a bit with them which does play into the inner ‘have we chosen the right school?’ monologue. I agree with @MsTSwift re is anyone happy at this age? Or at least continuously, confidently happy. DD2 seems happy at school but less happy in this change from girl to woman, not wanting to go out in public without hugely voluminous clothes at the moment. I do prefer these clothes to tight fitting and revealing ones for sure but wish she felt more secure and less in need of armour (if that makes sense!),

Totally identify with the unhappiness abort changing from girl to woman
She’s so painfully self conscious and not happy about chest etc.
Am disappointed she’s adamant about stopping ballet - but can also see that as a self conscious pre teen having to wear a leotard is probably the worst thing imaginable. Such a crap reason to stop something she previously seemed to enjoy though!
Unfortunately all suggestions of trying a different type that doesn’t involve leotards, like street dance, have been met with derision 🙄

If anyone has a recommendation for a good book about teenage brains I’d be very interested.
I found ‘queen bees and wannabes’ quite helpful for friendship dynamics

And yy to the hormonal stuff. Dd has yet to start her period but I’ve been feeling for a while she’s gearing up to it

I loved ‘Inventing Ourselves’ by Sarah Jane Blakemore - it is quite sciencey but done in a way that even I could grasp!

Also ‘Brainstorm’ which is a short play by Ned Glasier. Somehow it was if the teens were talking to me and it made me really emotional- would love to put this play on with some teenagers!

I’d quite like a book recommendation too! Ditto @Diddlysquatty re dance -DD2 goes to a Performing Arts specialising school, dance classes are obligatory and she’s disgarded her leotard for her baggy black drama top.

If only they could see themselves as we see them - but then did we?! I look at the pictures of the size 8-10 teenage and twenty something me who was very self conscious about her body and I would kill to still look like that!

And an awesome book for the teens to read it YESSSSS! THE S.U.M.O Secrets to being a Positive, Confident Teenager by Paul McGee
Took on board lots of the ideas for myself too (maybe I have never grown up!)

@SJaneS49 sorry you had a pants (and poo filled) day. Here is to 2021 (from Spring onwards maybe! ) x

And to you & yours @flourandeggs x

Hi OP, I’m sorry to hear your DD isn’t happy. For what it’s worth my two DDs at diff schools both found year 8 the hardest and both stopped their dance and sport. Their friends in year 10 and 11 were completely different to their friends in year 7 and 8. It’s luck of the draw whether they find like minded friends and teachers, nice and not so nice kids rock up to every school. My year 10 daughter took up different sports a year or so later and has stuck with that to my relief. If I were you I wouldn’t spend too much time thinking about whether or not to make a change. I would visit elsewhere and apply elsewhere and then see what your choices are....apologies if that’s been said, I haven’t read all the posts

wrt dance, ds gave up his beloved football in year 7 as he 'wasn't good enough'

Then in year 10 he began using the gym and then in year 11 joined an adult 5 a side team. Kids who liek sprot will find their new adult versions at some point.

I feel very fortunate that dd has continued with her beloved dance right through the teenage years, and I feel sure that this has helped a lot - in terms of having interests outside academia, a regular exercise regime and friends outside of school. Her mental health has definitely taken a dip during the periods in this last year when the dance studio has had to close due to covid.

I do understand teenage girls starting to feel self conscious in leotards, though. It's a shame that your dd won't try another type of dance instead, OP. Would she perhaps consider drama? That is dd's other big passion, and she gets a lot from this too, though we would both prioritise dance if we had to choose.

It's so hard at the moment with gyms and activities closed, but I do think regular exercise is really important for mental health and lots of teenagers don't seem to get enough. Thankfully, dd has figured this out for herself now, and will go for runs etc if the dance studio is closed. It definitely impacts on her mood, but I do appreciate how hard it is (maybe impossible?!) to get a teenager to exercise if they aren't interested!

DD hasn't ever been one for massive friendship dramas, but I would definitely say that year 8 is the worst for girls. DD is now year 11 and her friendship groups are very stable now. It takes a while for them to find their niche, I think.

In contrast, DH and I gave a great whoop of relief when DD2 threw in the towel on ballet, tap and musical theatre at the local dance school last year. We’ve reclaimed Saturday mornings and one evening as well as the Easter and May school holidays & weekends given over to rehearsals for the bi-annual big razzmatazz of a show involving DD in multiple numbers in multiple outfits costing several £100s. She still has dance, drama, singing and Lamda at her Performing Arts specialising school (the last two paid for) so I don’t feel she’s missing out.

When I get memories on Facebook come up of little DD in her ballet costumes I feel a small pang of sadness but quite honestly seeing how much of the girls time the big summer show Dance Schools take, I’m delighted she’s exited now before the GCSE years.

Haha, yes 15SJaneS49, I feel your pain with regard to the cost of the dance costumes! Dance and musical theatre do indeed take up a lot of time, but they bring her so much joy that I do feel they're worth it. As she is planning to go down a very scientific route for her a-levels, I also feel that they offer a nice balance that she wouldn't otherwise have. If, that is, they will be able to start doing stuff again soon!

This is purely anecdotal, but I was really shocked at the prevalence of mental health problems amongst my privately educated peers at Cambridge. Perhaps it was coincidence, but my state educated friends did not appear to have nearly so many problems.

This was my experience too at Imperial but also with some foreign students whose parents had spent a lot of money on fees (feeling pressured, anxiety, insecurity).

In our limited experience the big delta between state and private us the extent and quality of extra curricular - sports, music, drama etc is in a new level.
Our state primary DS would have a TA teaching her half the time including art and music. Alot of the parents are unhappy - the TA has no affinity with art or music. Our kids prep school has specialist art and music teachers with art clubs, choirs, orchestras. Sport is the same.. state primary sports teacher comes once a week for an hour plus one hour a week with form teacher of 'dance'. Prep school sports matches start in yr 3 and there is a swimming team and sports training at lunchtimes and after school.
If these things don't matter to you don't pay for private. However I think teenagers especially girls are more likely yo be engaged in sports for longer.

Extra curricular undeniably better at private. We got round this by getting dd into a private excellently run local hockey club. Even as a cool 14 year old she loves it and plays in the week with weekend matches has made lots of new friends and the young women that play who are mostly students at the local university are really good out of school role models.

Our state girls school is 1.5 miles away and the girls all walk with their mates. They have a real laugh and go to cafes on Friday etc. My friends girls at private are picked up in the car everyday at 5pm after all these extra curricular. They have very few local friends and my friend often bemoans they hang around the house. So yes they will end up better at tennis but not sure on balance whether they wouldn’t be happier mucking about with friends.

A lot of girls have a (Friendship) nightmare in y8, it’s normal but upsetting and worrying

I know girls who moved to little private schools and it was a godsend. I know girls who stayed and grew into nice friendship groups. I know girls who stayed in state and ended up in worse groups... there is no way of knowing

I do know that for my own kids having friends outside of school was the key to stability , through army cadets/sport/acting

It’s much harder when their entire social life is school based at that age

Agree with the two above it's v good to have activities and friends outside of school so that school is not 100 percent of their lives.

I would move her to a non super selective pastorally strong smaller private if that is possible.
I don’t think any school has all ‘happy’ children but it sounds like she would benefit from being near the top academically and in a different ethos in terms of how the young people view their education. Moving preGCSE is a good time.

I was a geeky uncool type who was bullied and miserable in a large middling comp where almost no one else gave a monkeys about learning. My dc are now, due to unforeseen circumstances, in a private school that I would have loved...although friends are always who happens to be there at the time so you can never be sure.

MsTSwift "Extra curricular undeniably better at private." Absolutely not true.

Ummm I wish it wasn’t true either but anecdotally it is I’m afraid.

Dd sport she does one hour a week at school her private school friends same sport do anentire afternoon plus after school and weekend matches!

In our limited experience the big delta between state and private us the extent and quality of extra curricular

I agree that this is often the case. The drama at dd's state comprehensive is actually pretty good, thanks to an absolutely amazing drama teacher. The sport is probably mefiocre at best, and the music is quite limited. The music at dd's primary school was absolutely exceptional, however

The thing is, it's really easy to supplement these things outside of school, and there are advantages to having different friendship groups as well. I would never have wanted dd's entire life to revolve around the school because I don't think it's healthy.

Also, for those kids who want to do sport/music/drama at a higher level, even the private school offering is unlikely to be enough, so the kids from both sectors end up doing the same stuff together outside of school. DD's drama group is full of kids from the local private school because what they offer is way better than anything offered by any of the schools in either sector. Same for the kids who compete nationally in their sports, or the ones who go off and join the national youth orchestra as my sister did when we were younger.

So I think private probably does offer better opportunities to younger kids who aren't that serious about their activities, but nothing that a proactive parent can't easily replicate outside of school. It just means you have to play taxi driver a bit more often!

Ds2's prep school does sports 4 days a week, after school art DT and sport and French 4 times a week. This is year 3. Where we live we would struggle to provide this in the evenings and weekends.

Private school extra curricular at the better schools is like a Charlie Bingham ready meal - nice packaging, easy, means you can focus on your job and not worry about hours spent ‘cooking’. To get the same at most states (caveat - not all I know) you have to source the best ingredients from good specialist shops and cook it yourself. Can taste just as good (better?!)

I did giggle at one poster who was furious that they had to pay fees for what the government ‘should’ be providing in state schools. I am happy to stand corrected but I don’t know any country in the world that provides a state education via taxes with the level of extra curricular that U.K. fee paying schools involved in the facilities arms race give to pupils - there has been an explosion in last ten years! I think (again correct / educate me here ) that in most countries your state education gives you the basics and the rest you source via specialist teachers outside of school (in our country often ones with day jobs in the private sector!) I am not for one moment saying that the Government shouldn’t fund education better and I would like smaller class size, but really I think a child’s education can be better if it takes place in a variety of different locations, if the parents have the time to do that. That said the sports club I coach at is overflowing with children from fee paying schools as the coaching is better than at their schools so some families do the Charlie Bingham and the home cooking option!