Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

Perhaps we should just all hold off from answering these types of posts - nobody learns anything, they aren’t constructive, everybody answers from their own personal perspective and experience which is inevitably going to be irrelevant to the next persons given we all have different, individual children going to different individual schools. It’s always going to be a bun fight.

This is purely anecdotal, but I was really shocked at the prevalence of mental health problems amongst my privately educated peers at Cambridge. Perhaps it was coincidence, but my state educated friends did not appear to have nearly so many problems. Same here. Eating disorders, especially.

Do you think the majority of us want to pay for what we should get included in our taxes?

There are plenty of private school parents who have are happy to pay and never even consider sending their children to state schools. Couldn't tell you if it was a majority, but it's certainly a sizeable minority.
of course there are some parents who choose private because they do not have an acceptable state alternative, but that's not the true for all private school parents. And of course many parents don't want "acceptable" - they want amazing.

(If it helps to make my opinion valid, my children do not go to an "excellent" state school in the way I think it was meant on this thread. They go to a bog standard comp, whose results are lower than many private school parents would deem acceptable). They are still pretty happy (which was the point of his thread :) ))

@Hoppinggreen

Same here MrsMiaWallace I’ve yet to see an anti Private school post from a parent with children not at an excellent State school. Do you think the majority of us want to pay for what we should get included in our taxes? I sure as hell don’t but we consider it necessary and as we are able to send the DC Private we do

What’s anti private on here?

I do have a really good state option and can compare to private as have used both. I’m not anti private in any way I just don’t think you can say where children are always happier, it’s a mix.

That’s not to say there aren’t other considerations

I have always said on these posts that my childrens’ primary was absolutely average, had dreadful senco and was not academically high flying. But the childhood it gave them was just incredible... Lovely walks to school, incredible community (diverse, not all middle class like us) lots of downtime after school, wonderful memories.. I wouldn’t have paid for it but I was happy we had it down the road. I would pay for their secondary state school if I had to as it is a more complete package. So no I don’t only rave about our state schools. The reason I am often on these posts is to refute the claim that private is better for all children and that children are happier there as I see so so SO many examples of this not being true as well as examples of happy children. I think to be fair the OP knew she was asking a question for which there was no one answer and there is certainly no research that says that children are happier if they went to private school that I know of.

I also went to private and not every child was happy - although a long time ago pastoral care may be better

I can only speak for my quite academic DS 12.

At state primary he was bored, demotivated and utterly miserable about sport/pe. There was a lot of cliquey snobbery and, since he wasn't one of the cool kids, he felt very isolated. After 18 months at a small non-selective independent senior school, he is happy, cheerful, engaged and gradually gaining confidence at pe. I will have to work an extra 5 years to cover the cost, but so far it has been worth it - and a huge relief.

But I don't think state or independent is what matters. It's more down to school catchment, leadership, teaching style, and individual child.

I think MIDDLE class parents fall into a few categories (feel free to add to my list)

Those who would never contemplate any type of education apart from fee paying and who can afford it.

Those who would never contemplate any type of education apart from fee paying and who can’t afford it but almost bankrupt themselves and/or their parents to pay for it.

Those who can’t afford private and would never consider any other type of state education apart from grammars and have children who are bright enough.

Those who can’t afford private and would never consider any other type of education apart from grammars but they find out mid process their kids aren’t bright enough and so badger every family member they know / remortgage so that they can go private instead. If all else fails they will do the comp and moan.

Those who know their childrens’ comps aren’t going to give them the toppest of top grades or turn them into Olympians but see other things that they love about the school and how it will set their children up for life.

Any I have missed?

Flour
I might add comps that are used by the sharp elbowed (buying house close by) plus a mix and people see it’s pretty good including good results for top sets

Unless you had it and I missed it ;

@MarshaBradyo. Very true. And of course there are many who move across different sectors / schools if they are unhappy so it can’t be a true list. And of course most of the middle class tutor, probably in all of those categories!

Any I have missed?

Yes, those who could afford private but don't think it's worth the investment because they're entirely confident that their kids will do just as well in the local state comp. And yes, that includes getting the "toppest of top grades" for those who are capable of it, as well as having plenty of opportunities for enrichment etc. Some of us simply don't buy into the hype around private education.

There are good schools, bad schools and great schools in both sectors. Personally, I think it's about finding the right fit for your child.

@flourandeggs. Those parents who can afford to live in the catchment of an outstanding state school and don't have to worry about it

Those parents who homeschool because one of them can be at home full time.

Those parents who just do the best they can.

....all regardless of class

I think the point I was making is that we all take slightly different routes with the best intentions for our children — and they all end up in vaguely the same place. There is no one size fits all, and middle class parents generally are going to do well for their children just by being engaged and spending time on forums like this one!

I think the point I was making is that we all take slightly different routes with the best intentions for our children — and they all end up in vaguely the same place. There is no one size fits all, and middle class parents generally are going to do well for their children just by being engaged and spending time on forums like this one!

Yes, absolutely, I agree. Each child and each school is different, and as parents, we just have to do our best to meet the needs of the children that we have while making the very most of the options available to us.

I certainly don't blame anyone for choosing private if they can afford to do so and if they genuinely believe that it offers the best option for their child. I'd have done the same if I'd have thought that's what my child needed. Where I take issue is with those who seem bent on making the case for the idea that private education is universally the better option for all children...that it makes them happier, or more confident or less glued to their phones or whatever. I simply do not believe that this is the case.

@Hoppinggreen

Same here MrsMiaWallace I’ve yet to see an anti Private school post from a parent with children not at an excellent State school. Do you think the majority of us want to pay for what we should get included in our taxes? I sure as hell don’t but we consider it necessary and as we are able to send the DC Private we do

I am not anti private.

As I have repeatedly said, there are good and bad state, and good and bad private schools. I went to an excellent private school. My kids go to an excellent state school.

I am well aware that not everywhere has the luxury of good state schools. In fact my kids travel to get to theirs as our local schools are rubbish.
I have no problem with anyone choosing private.

What I was pushing back against was the nature of the comments, including the one that all comp kids were inarticulate and scrolled through their screens while the private kids were charming, articulate and confident. That is an appalling stereotype. And the trouble with allowing those stereotypes to stand without challenging them is that it repeats and reinforces the basic snobbery that is massively embedded in public life which is that private school kids are better than state.

We need to break that. Any stereotype which writes off over 90% of our teenagers is a bad thing.
That is why I have continued to post back about it. As was said, I am lucky to have a good state school, not everyone is, and some of those choose private. (although in my experience of private school, that was rarely the reason why parents chose it)

Private or state we choose the school which suits our child. Just stop making assumptions about the 90% that don't choose private.

@steppemum - beautifully put. Xx

Mine went private and were jolly happy. Most of their mates seemed so too.
But so did their mates in state schools.

@AlexaShutUp I completely agree with you and I just don’t know what makes people so unable to see the whole picture. The phone comment up post to me illuminates that type of attitude so completely...how I wish that poster could meet my neighbour’s children who are at fee paying and never raise their heads from phones even in company of adults, or my niece who is addicted to her phone and has been allowed it at all hours of the day since she got it with no restrictions at all and can barely grunt at her family or friends (this will pass and she is a fabulous girl really). I think some people just don’t want to see that people are simply people wherever they go to school.

I just don’t know what makes people so unable to see the whole picture.

My personal theory is that it helps some people to stomach the eye-wateringly high cost of private education if they can convince themselves that their kids will turn out "better" than others as a result of their investment.

If people would only focus on what was best for their child, instead of their child somehow being the best (cleverest, most articulate, happiest or whatever), then I think the tone of some posters would be very different.

It seems that some people only feel that they're getting value for money if it enables them to put other people down.

@AlexaShutUp love the way you put that, I have a few friends who want their children to be the best (or already believe they are!) whatever the cost. Hey ho, I think I have always valued childhood over education but I sometimes question whether I am missing the point and should push a bit harder. I think that is why I like these posts, amongst some of the differing opinions there are voices that make so much sense to me and I cherish hearing those.

@alexashutup. My DS is at independent school. It isn't about wanting him to be 'better' than others. I find the money because I want him to be happy in himself. If it achieves that, it will be money well spent.

I doubt I count as middle class. I am a single mum from a free school meals family. But DS is academic, and was unhappy before. I owe him his chance.

@steppemum and @AlexaShutUp I think one issue is that state schools don’t have time or budget for PR so those ridiculously false myths don’t get broken down with positive role model alternatives. Maybe we should set something up to show how many wonderful, interesting, achieving HAPPY people went / go to state schools!!! I have a friend who works full time in PR at a private school within a bigger marketing department of 4 people. No wonder they can put out some positive PR with that on hand! Some state schools are good with their social media etc but have no budget for real PR campaigns.

Yes, those who could afford private but don't think it's worth the investment because they're entirely confident that their kids will do just as well in the local state comp. And yes, that includes getting the "toppest of top grades" for those who are capable of it, as well as having plenty of opportunities for enrichment etc. Some of us simply don't buy into the hype around private education

And those for whom one of the benefits of going to a comprehensive school well supported by middle class parents was making friends from different backgrounds that broadened our horizons and helped us understand what might be possible when that information was not available to our own parents - and who want to pay that back in kind.

My DC go to Private school because I think they stand a better chance of enjoying the whole school experience, it’s not about results for me.
I think DD might have got the same results at a State school (unfortunately not the one available to us as it’s failing badly) but will never know.I am pretty sure DS will achieve more at his Private school but that’s largely because the smaller classes mean he can’t hide and the teachers will be able to push him more
Having a miserable time at school but coming out with a clutch of grade 9s will have mean we made the wrong decision. Being happy and achieving enough to move on to the next stage, whatever that is, is what we want for our DC and we believe that the Private school we have chosen (not all Private schools necessarily) is the best chance of achieving that. Believe me, both are certainly having a childhood , well they were Pre bloody Covid