Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

@Hoppinggreen I agree with your pre Covid comment poor things it’s been a rough year for children ! I am just glad that some of mine will be going back to school next week (will have two at home though!)

I certainly wasn't especially as it was a boarding school. Very lonely holidays with few friends nearby

Never forget a client dinner when a clients wife said no child of hers would go to a state school - knife crime! Drugs! Mortifying when dh and I both admitted we had gone to state school 😁. Can still picture her face!

@MsTSwift my boarding school was like a pharmacy there were so many drugs! God people are naive aren’t they.

@MsTSwift
The drug dealers wait down the road outside a couple of the independent schools near me (SW London) every day at pick up. Every so often they’re moved on but always return eventually. I give them hard stares when I drive past and am usually rewarded with the finger 😂
Drugs are in every school in the land I’m sure but the kids at independent schools might be more likely to have the money for them though

We are at state but both dh and I and dd herself through her sport have lots of friends at private there is no discernible difference in levels of either happiness or indeed teen naughtiness!

Although happiness of 15 year olds at all types of school have plummeted tonight as their New Years plans all trashed ...

More drugs, more mental health issues, more eating disorders.

But heaven forbid you say that your dds state school friends spend too much time on their phones

For those who haven’t been in Tier 4 for weeks (and what feels like months)you mean @MsTSwift!

Mind you, judging by the groups of teenagers I still spot out at least once a day when I walk the dog, perhaps it won’t make much of a difference to their plans for some of them.

@MrsMiaWallis
“ More drugs, more mental health issues, more eating disorders.

But heaven forbid you say that your dds state school friends spend too much time on their phones hmm”.

Indeed .. so perhaps time to drop stereotypes and generalisations of all kind.

Indeed .. so perhaps time to drop stereotypes and generalisations of all kind

That would mean deleting 70% of this thread. So much spite.

I have found many of the comments helpful

@dalrympy ironically I am a GDST old girl myself - but had to travel for it and really wanted my girls to have local friends, be more prepared for the big wide world (and mixing with boys!), and not have the academic pressure that I saw was counter productive for some of my peers.

I hate feeling like we may have made a mistake but have to remember that based on info at the time it seemed the right option.

I think we fall into the category of middle class, could probably on paper just about afford it, but not convinced it was worth it/better than the ‘excellent’ and sought after local state school, plus were confident dd would do well anywhere.

It’s just very hard to know how much of her issues and personality change are down to the school environment, and how much is lockdown/puberty/normal teenage stuff.

I do think one near certainty is that in a much smaller indie she’s likely to have smaller classes and more consistent teachers. But it’s whether that would outweigh the disruption of moving.

Friendships.... I just don’t know. But there are downsides to smaller schools in terms of lack of choice. And how she is at the moment I’m concerned she might not make friends easily.

I’m erring towards sticking with the current school but asking some questions about consistency of teachers. (So hard at the moment and don’t feel I can really bother them!)
We may go to see one private school I’ve got in mind - and talk to one family I vaguely know with a child there.

I have no advice re the private school as my Y8 DD is in a state and not moving. However, she, and a lot of her friends are miserable at the moment. It is constant tears, she had her 12th birthday in quarantine and will probably have her 13th too, she has quit all her dance, drama and one instrument as she couldn't bear the online lessons. There are no practical lessons in any schools I know of and the only thing she has kept up with marginally is Art. I got rid of all social media and laptop and she seems to be better now but its a really really hard time for a lot of kids at the moment and I wouldn't really be moving my child now to be honest, as it is hard to know exactly what the source of unhapiness is.
If the school was working pre Covid I would stick it out and revisit once this is all over, especially as a lot of the value in private is small classes and extra curricular, which they won't be benefitting from now. She is also unlikely to get as many options for GCSE's as she would in a bigger school.

Apologies OP, it’s been a tough day and perhaps I’m feeling more strident than usual - I do find the arguments that one type of school produces a type or a guaranteed happier/more successful ultimately better child a bit tiresome. We’ve chosen State as that’s what we felt was best for our child and we don’t regret it but how happy any child is
can’t be simplified into ‘State’ or ‘Private’ . but you obviously know that.

I’ve a Year 8 DD too and can completely understand your dilemma. Essentially they only had 2 terms of Year 7 before lockdown, a big gap and yet more time off now. DD’s friends from Year 7 she didn’t particularly like or feel she had much in common with. Like your DD the academic side isn’t an issue. She took the decision at the start of Year 8 to ask her bus friend if she could instead mix with her and her friends, broke away from her original group and has subsequently been a lot happier, they are just more her type of people. So perhaps the solution if your daughter isn’t feeling confident in herself is for her to break away from this toxic little group & explore other friendships rather than the more drastic change of schools? It sounds like you have been proactive about this all and the school have been helpful and responsive too? DD1 (aged 26) did flit across a number of social groups at Secondary till she found her people. Friendships are far from static at this age. Best wishes with whatever you decide - it’s an impossible thing to know at school selection stage if you are making the right choice but perhaps give DD a little more time (and if she is still unhappy after the end of the Year, look at moving her then).

And having just read all your posts now I can see that actually you are already encouraging her to branch out of this rather catty little group! Is there any chance she could move class? I appreciate Covid and Bubbles would rather complicate that as an option potentially though.

Added onto all the Covid rollercoaster our Year 8s have had, throw in the hormonal changes too and changes in body shape. This is a tough age for girls! DD2 is currently wearing huge hoodies and jumpers as she is desperately uncomfortable with the fact she’s developing a chest. The first set of girls she was friendly with she compared herself unfavourably with as they were image conscious and popular. Her new friends are definitely geekier and more her. Basically, i think they’re all at six’s and sevens with themselves, who they are and where they fit.

Thankyou @SJaneS49
I’m sorry you’ve had a difficult term too but it’s good to know she’s not the only one struggling.

I didn’t mean it to become such a polarising thread - I think part of the issue round here (not sure if it’s the same elsewhere?) is that we live semi rurally and there seems to be very little difference in the nearby state schools. So unfortunately it’s really hard unless you can pay, to find the right school that ‘fits’ your child.

Honestly, maybe some aspects of the semi rural and play a part, I imagine it's harder to meet up with friends etc but we live in London and within a 3 mile radius have 10 secondary schools. You get the one you're closest to and pray you're not in a black spot. Even with an EHCP it's hard to get into the good ones, many kids appeal for spaces and most people who want schools that fit their kids are either lucky, pass a grammar, move or pay.

Is anyone happy in year 8 though? Am mid 40s and looking back the first 3 years of secondary a low spot of my life and I was fine at school generally. Being13 is pretty shit for everyone.

I got in to a local private school after winning a scholarship.

It was the worst time of my life.

Bullied by both teachers and other pupils relentlessly. If your face/clothes/accent doesn’t fit neither will you. To this day I am annoyed that I didn’t expose them, some of my teachers school reports were full of appalling classism.

Strangely enough I did go on to a ‘prestigious’ university and people were much nicer, my ‘poor ness’ didn’t seem to matter anymore.

To be fair, apart from the lack of choice of you want a different approach we are in a good position.
We’re in a large village - our catchment secondary is about 4 miles north (free bus transport provided). The next closest one is in the town that’s about 4 miles south, but I probably said upthead - they’re both a similar size (1000-1500 year 7-11) and part of the same multi academy trust so lots of similarities. People do sometimes move between the two to make a fresh start but dd was clear she didn’t want to do this when we discussed it before.

If you want something smaller/different you’re looking at going further away with no/very limited public transport options.

Conversely there are a ton of varied private/public schools in the area, a good few with bus services from the village.

@SJaneS49. Hope you are ok you said you had a tough day. You are always a good voice of reason and a reminder to me not to stereotype, I do fall in to that trap sometimes as a defence mechanism when state school kids are stereotyped. Basically we are all blessed to have children, to live in a country where we have options, where vaccinations will be free and sooner rather than later and where our children can have the expectations of good lives. I often come away from these threads thinking we all want the same thing - happy healthy children, and what a shame we are divided as we are all intrinsically the same and our kids are the same. Thanks for the reminder to keep it ‘nice’ on here. @Diddlysquatty I think all parents in all spheres of education question their decisions occasionally, it’s part of the brief! You sound so lovely and thoughtful I think your daughter will be just fine whatever you decide as you ‘have her back’ as my teen would put it! I hope 2021 gives you and your daughter many more smiles.

I remember the head at our secondary school saying at a parents talk the first week of year 7 not to worry too much about the first few years of friendship groups (easy to say less easy to do!) “we’ve seen it all before” he said “year after year. Eventually after lots of wiggling they find their friendship path” My year 9 is testament to this - she is happier in her own skin this year and you can almost see that physically - posture less hunched, smiles more, engages with us and teachers more, is excited about the world again. She has worked out the ‘mean girls’ and how to deal with them (arms length, don’t provoke unless you have to stick up for a friend) she has worked out the ‘friends for a week and move on’ type and can enjoy them but not expect life long commitment from them, and she has found a little group of like minded friends - they have had issues of course but they like each other enough to sort them out and move on. I am always adamant they don’t use the ‘best friend’ word as it only seems to cause them heartbreak, I say keep it as wide as you can, have lots of friends from clubs outside school (hard at the moment) your old primary friends and don’t put all your eggs in one basket. I also say to all my girls that female friendship is a life time of learning, even granny struggles sometimes with feeling FOMO and hurt by friends! I certainly haven’t got it nailed yet but am learning about myself in friendships all the time. I am worried I have stereotyped friendships in this post and not everyone fits in to these categories and actually I think one of the loveliest things in the world can be when someone we think of as fitting in to one of our own internal stereotypes surprises us... the ‘mean girl’ who isn’t mean at all, but desperately insecure and clinging to her ‘meanness’ as a piece of armour and who we finally understand. Finding out other people are 3 dimensional and not 2 dimensional is one of life’s wonders. One more hormone anecdote...my daughter started her period in year 8 and it has taken her cycles a year to settle down and now she is more confident, happier, calmer ... she also knows to give her friends a break the week before their period or during it, and tries not to take any snipping to heart if it might be hormone induced!

@MrsMiaWallis

More drugs, more mental health issues, more eating disorders.

But heaven forbid you say that your dds state school friends spend too much time on their phones

In this case I agree with you MrsMiaWallis

we should not stereotype any school or set of kids. It is not helpful.

I got into a local Private school after winning a scholarship and it was fantastic.
Wasn’t bullied once, was never made to feel like the poor kid, no peer pressure and made some amazing friends who live all over the world now and I have had some great holidays going to visit them.
Just goes to show everyone’s experience is different

I agree with flourandeggs about friednship groups.

ds switched groups twice in year 7, then again in year 9 and finally in year 10 or 11 found a really good group of friends that he is still friends with now.

dd1 is in year 11, she told me that she didn't really find her group until year 8, when she finally fell in with some nice kids. They have stayed a pretty strong group.

dd2 is year 8, so they only had 2 terms to try and go through that friendship exploration. She didn't feel as if she had a group going into lockdown. Got friendly with one girl in her class via social media dn then when school restarted in Sept, fell out with her. She has really struggled through sept-dec as she wasn't friends with anyone in her class and they were in tutor group bubbles. Finally she has started to make some connections. Now they are shut down again.

and the period thing. dd2 turns into a complete horror for a few days every month. She started in year 7, but I have only just connected her outrageous behaviour to her cylce, and I am now keeping a track so I can see when it is hormone based. It is a mix of misery and lashing out.