Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

If she's year 8 I'd start looking around to see if another school is a better fit for her. Can you drag it out of her why she's unhappy (I'm assuming she is). Very important you think about what's best for your daughter. If you look at the local private schools you might think none of them would be right anyway.

The same assertions seem to get recycled on these Private/State time immemorial.

I agree with @AlexaShutUp. Most things can be supplemented outside of school. Nor are provision of Clubs at State schools by any means necessarily poor. A State school with a specialism in Sports is likely to have a good amount of Sports based clubs. DDs specialises in the Perforrming & Visual Arts, there are 6 choirs, singing and a whole variety of musical instruments, script & creative writing, drama clubs and Lamda, an in-house musical studio and cinema, multiple Arts (drawing/textiles/graphics), netball, trampolining, cheerleading and horse riding. For girls wanting extra curricular tennis and hockey yes there would be a gap but DD plays tennis with me and has been to a local tennis club.

The point I’m making in it appears a long winded way is that no, provision in Privates is not undeniably better - DDs school offers more on the Performing and Visual Arts side than the local Private’s (and made Tatlers Top 10 UK State schools a couple of years ago for this reason). I’d agree it’s likely that some (not by any means all) Private’s offer a greater breadth across disciples ..but I wonder how strong Millfields offerings in the Visual and Performing Arts actually are?

Disciplines not disciples!

@SJaneS49. Our secondary is very similar to yours with incredible extra curricular (not at the moment though sadly) but our primary offering was pretty sparse - it didn’t matter as there was so much outside school but I did feel sad there wasn’t more after school and also very little music and drama in the curriculum either, so it was wonderful to discover that at our secondary the children do dance, drama and music every week within curriculum then more options after school too as well as an eye boggling amount of sport clubs and foreign sports trips. I do think a lot comes down to the area the school is in and parental support of school/ fundraising as our school is achingly middle class. As ever there is such a huge range of offerings within both sectors and I was stereotyping a bit to make a point.

Private school extra curricular at the better schools is like a Charlie Bingham ready meal - nice packaging, easy, means you can focus on your job and not worry about hours spent ‘cooking’. To get the same at most states (caveat - not all I know) you have to source the best ingredients from good specialist shops and cook it yourself. Can taste just as good (better?!)

Great analogy!

I would suggest looking at a Steiner school where there is more emphasis on overall well-being, as well as facilitating the child’s learning interests. A couple of close friends went to a Steiner school and they are both exceedingly bright, well rounded, and emotionally grounded.

Not happier because they go to private school, but happier maybe because their family have less money issues. More chance of doing extra curricular activities, more access to sports and clubs, more access to holidays, better food and choices. I don't think private school will make them happier, I think having money makes things much easier, and therefore less stress/worries which is turn makes for a happier environment.

Our secondary is very similar to yours with incredible extra curricular (not at the moment though sadly) but our primary offering was pretty sparse

Interesting, it has been rather the opposite for us. Incredible extracurricular options at primary, especially with regard to sport and music, but much less on offer at secondary. They do their best, with stuff like DofE and ski trips etc, and the drama productions are excellent, but some of the other stuff that they offer is a bit meh. The primary school was very middle class and probably benefited from a lot of fundraising. The secondary school is more socio-economically diverse.

It doesn't make much difference to dd in any case, as a lot of her time would be taken up with activities out of school either way. It's a shame for those who don't have out of school hobbies, though.

DD isn't particularly sporty but because of where we live, there are exceptional sporting opportunities offered in the local community, so it's very easy for kids to get involved at whatever level suits. We know a few kids who compete at national level and attend international events etc. Again, these clubs tend to attract kids from both private and state schools because of the quality of what they offer.

“Not happier because they go to private school, but happier maybe because their family have less money issues. More chance of doing extra curricular activities, more access to sports and clubs, more access to holidays, better food and choices.”

@rhowton, erm, no!

Parents struggling to pay Private fees might have significantly more monetary issues! Arguably, we as a family with a child in a State have more far flung holidays (I won’t use the word better as quite frankly define better? For some, a camping holiday might be infinitely more enjoyable than an AI break in the Bahamas) than some struggling to pay Private fees. As for better food - define again better? Good nutrition doesn’t need to cost the earth.

Quite honestly what you are talking about is parental income, not the benefits of Private school.

@flourandeggs, wrong to be a bit over familiar with both Charlie Bingham & Cook’s offerings as both lack any cooking ability whatsoever and any culinary imagination or indeed, interest?! 🙂

Our state primary had 1 sports club a week (football) and that was it. 2 hours of PE lessons (one with sports teacher one with class teacher). No choir, very few learnt instruments, no lamda, no sports teams.
DS1 moved in year 3 to prep school. 4 hours of PE per week, x-country running club, swimming team, hockey team, netball team, cricket team, football team, rugby team, gymnastics club, LAMDA (extra charge), a play each term, ukulele club, choirs, orchestra, lots of children doing instrument and singing lessons. Where we live we couldn't even replicate what the prep school offers, even if we tried. You might be able to rustle up one or two of the activities but not all of them.
The state secondary near us has a few teams and a choir but that's about it. I know our friend's state schools in London provide more extra curricular but where we are its very limited.

I personally think it is a positive to do extra curricular out of school (though concede it is more difficult/time consuming). Making friends that they don't go to school with has been one of the big positives. I also think non-school extra-curricular provides both more of a breadth of opportunity (local Music service provides music groups for children of any musical ability from beginner upwards; to get into private school orchestras etc they normally require a certain standard - and in the case of my DN's private school you also have to play the "right" instrument"). The teaching may be better at specialist clubs (e.g. DS did martial arts to a high level - he was taught by one of the top practitioners in the UK from beginner level) and there is greater breadth of activities available (one of DS's friends started ice skating as a beginner at age 11; now competes nationally). Private school extra curricular can only cover so much.

I don’t know if mine are ‘happier’ at private school. They are however getting a great education especially during these torrid times.

@rhowton

Not happier because they go to private school, but happier maybe because their family have less money issues. More chance of doing extra curricular activities, more access to sports and clubs, more access to holidays, better food and choices. I don't think private school will make them happier, I think having money makes things much easier, and therefore less stress/worries which is turn makes for a happier environment.

Two things:

1. Many families spend all their money on private education. There is no room for these extras
2. You seem to think more money = happier. I think that's a whole different discussion.

Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Why consider an academic selective secondary then?

Look at a private school that isn’t academically selective.

@SJaneS49 Not at all - I love buying them too! Was quite tempted by the Cooks Christmas lunch but DH quite likes doing the big day cook (funnily enough he's less keen on the mid week 'what the f**k shall I cook for tea this time' type cooking.) However I do like cooking so I know that I can make a lasagne to rival theirs at a fraction of the price if I have the time hence the analogy.
@angrysquirrel73 crikey it sounds like you have the Fortnum of Mason's Ready Meal equivalent - great you have children that love taking part in all of those activities. Shame for those who pay the same fee and don't have children who do them all though, they might be counting their pennies and wondering why your children are getting so much more out of it all than them? We have been so blessed with our secondary as the offering is very similar (and free! I don't know how they fund all those free clubs but guessing it must be PTA helped?) Primary was very sparse though, but luckily we live between two cracking cities and have lots in the local town too and its lucky the younger children don't mind time in the car listening to audibles, and I figure they would be doing that time in a school bus if we did fee paying so I figure either way they are travelling. I do sometimes dream of London, but even then I am guessing there is lots of travel between clubs.

@SJaneS49. oh for the bahamas now! Sandy pink beaches or looking out at a grey muddy field like I am right now...hmmmm... tough choice. Won't be long now will it and we can travel again?! I made a mock up 'prospectus' of our life as if it was a school recently and realised I would be biting off someone's hand to send our children to our 'school'. I know that they would get lots of lovely things from fee paying school too but I don't think any of my family would swop it for our travel adventures and lovely educational trips and the intensely heated debating club that we have around our table each night!

@flourandeggs, I do love the idea of mocking up your life as if it was a school. Agree, nothing but mud, mud, mud ahead which DDog throws herself into literally enthusiastically, us not so much!

As for the Bahama’s, I used it as an example of what might be seen as a luxury holiday as v camping but to be honest, that kind of holiday bores me absolutely rigid! Much rather be travelling around an interesting country by train/car with multiple stops and maybe ending up at a beach somewhere for a couple of days to give DD2 her lazying by a pool time!

MsTSwift ... just not true, depends where you get your anecdotes. You really can't generalise on the better extra curricular any more than you can on happier. But from my selective state secondary experience, it could not have been bettered.

@SJaneS49. Oooh I don’t know I could do at least a week with a book (or ten) at the moment... then followed by the more interesting bit. We do have the most unusual, educational and random trips usually though so I might feel a bit bored after a few days? Will have to look you up on travel and we can dream about this year and beyond! X

@RedskyAtnight I absolutely don't think you need money to be happy. But having more money certainly eliminates some stresses that you would face with having no money. If you have less stresses and worries, you will naturally be happier.

I agree, being rich doesn’t make you happier in itself but it’s easier to be happy if you aren’t always worried about money.
If you have engaged loving parents who can also provide material things I imagine you might be happier than someone with engaged loving parents who can’t.

Absolutely re happiness/wealth but it’s sliding into an assumption that Private school parents are going to better off income wise than State school which absolutely might not be the case.

@flourandeggs, yes come on over to Travel, tends to be less contentious than Education without doubt! I do think you’d be a bit bored but personally I’d much rather be reading a good book in my garden or sofa than hot & sweaty on a lounger with frequent interruptions from DD2 complaining she’s bored! DH would quite happily have an entire holiday on a lounger I think but personally I get hot and annoyed! I was lucky enough to have parents who lived and travelled widely abroad and it was always drummed into us that we were very fortunate to see the places we did and if you do visit a country, actually get out of the hotel and do it the courtesy of seeing it properly. It’s kind of stuck with me!

@rhowton @Hoppinggreen Someone once told me a lovely thing - once your basics are provided for (love, roof over head, food ) happiness becomes a choice. You can meet very rich people who are unhappy with their lives however much they accumulate, and those who have very little but choose to be happy and see how lucky they are for the small things. Happiness is a daily choice - it is choosing to be happy with what you have, rather than having what you want. I have met plenty of children who have material things and are constantly 'bored', and I've met and worked with street children in Egypt who smile all day because they have friends to hang out with and the promise of the next meal.

IMO I think happiness and good mental health is linked to contentment. I'm trying to teach my DCs this at the moment.