Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

We moved DS for yr8 and few joined in his year and more in yr9 ...its really worked for him happiness wise as was lost at o/s state school.. the smaller size and consequently attention has improved his mh no end....however we do have to travel a bit but they have a school bus...so check a wideish area....he not mega academic but bright enough..but hates pressure....maybe find somewhere she'd be less pressured...??

One of our main drivers was a close by school poor dh had to be driven to a bus stop then a 40 min bus ride each way which was shit for him and meant he had no local pals. The bus was like lots of the flies too.

My friend has made a similar choice for her sons as she set her heart on an academic school - we feel sorry for those lads. My two can walk to their pals houses

We moved DS in year 9. It was due to not fitting in and bullying which he didn't tell us about and the school minimised until he was threatened with being stabbed unless he took his own life.

He now goes to a private school which isn't selective and he's doing brilliantly. The pastoral care is amazing, the classes are so small that it's pretty obvious if there's a problem and he is much less concerned about appearance and fitting in. There are some v v wealthy families but a lot who are on scholarships (as is DS). He has chosen to go to a private 6th form next year.

He does so much better in a smaller environment and I think is just one of those kids who need to feel important and listened to which he wasn't at his state school.

As for the MH issues, my experience working in CAMHS was that we saw far more state and grammar school pupils than ones from private school.

As for the MH issues, my experience working in CAMHS was that we saw far more state and grammar school pupils than ones from private school.

Would there be an element of people seeking private counselling making numbers lower from private sector?

As for the MH issues, my experience working in CAMHS was that we saw far more state and grammar school pupils than ones from private school.

Surely that's inevitable, given that such a tiny proportion of children go to private schools compared to those in the state sector?

Wealthy people don’t wait for CAMHS which is unbelievably slow unless there is severe threat (suicidal thoughts eg) and 93% of children are state educated so within CAMHS you are going to have far more children that are state educated.

@Twinkie01 how horrific and sounds like you did absolutely the right thing, so wonderful he is flourishing now.

As for the MH issues, my experience working in CAMHS was that we saw far more state and grammar school pupils than ones from private school.

Well of course- only around 7% of schoolchildren in the uk access private education.

With respect to the OP there is a real trend for divisive State V Private threads on Mumsnet.

It completely depends on the child, their home environment & which school on how happy they are. Reducing happiness to either a State or Private option is just silly really.

It’s too broad and simplistic to be state v private but anecdotally friends who have moved unhappy kids (either state to private or state to other state) have all been glad they did.

In all cases the move largely child led

Firstly I'd say that friendship issues happen absolutely everywhere.

Secondly, in the independent sector there are rare gems that are not academically selective, but with great pastoral care and are arty, musical and creative but that also ensure that children achieve their academic potential. This is difficult to achieve and you need to do your homework carefully because not academically selective can mean that children underachieve and you are left wondering what you spent your money on.

Finally, there is huge pressure at any academically selective school even if they claim the opposite, so if this is a factor now you need to avoid that in the private sector, because in addition to schools wanting to preserve their league table position you have an army of parents insisting on getting their money's worth.

Anecdotally I know a number of people who cite their experience at private schools as damaging and the cause of mental health problems including bulimia and drug and alcohol addictions.

I know quite a few ex-students of highly academically selective independent schools who have low self-confidence (though they may well have the ‘polish’ talked about earlier!) from having been in the bottom sets - not realising that those bottom sets might well have been the top sets in another non-selective school.

It is only a very particular type of child who thrives in that sort of competitive environment and for a lot of others it’s just a recipe for misery. Definitely something to avoid if you’re unsure

One comment that seems to come up time and time again as if it was some absolute truism is the notion that Private schools apply ‘polish’. What exactly is meant by that?! I wonder if it says something about the prevalence of the class system that speaking a certain way endows that person in others eyes as possessing character traits like confidence that this person just might not possess! As in any school, there will be children in Private schools who have the complete range of self belief and self confidence. At 18, completely privately educated, I was totally gormless as were many of my friends. We really do need to just toss out and reject this absolutely nonsensical notion that any type of school produces a type.

I couldn't say whether my kids would be happier in a state school because they haven't experienced it. I went to a grammar school and was very happy there.

As trite as it sounds, both my children love sport so the number of fixtures and facilities at their private school definitely make them happy. They have found it hard having these curtailed this year and they have been a bit up and down (possibly a teenage boy getting rid of pent up emotion through sport thing...). Theirs is selective but I don't think those in the lower sets feel unhappy or inadequate.

Equally, there's plenty of sport available through clubs and some state schools so they could have found the same at a different school. My friends with sports loving kids at some of our local state schools voice their frustration at the limited provision for sports. But this varies hugely by school.

I don't see any wealth issues between the boys as some are on bursaries, some have parents who struggle to be able to afford the fees and others who are comfortably off. I don't think the financial situation of parents has a bearing on friendship groups, at least not at our school (Herts/NW London).

I think a lot of the ‘polish’ just refers to how children behave towards adults - for example, many pre-prep schools encourage children to look adults in the eye when speaking and teach them to shake hands etc. It can often make these kids appear precocious and lots of people don’t like it. But I guess this carries on so that by the time they are teenagers, they are more used to making an effort when chatting with adults rather than giving a monosyllabic reply.

I do find it all quite interesting though and would like to hear other people’s opinions on exactly what private schools might be doing to achieve it.
My feeling is that anyone can teach their kids to be like this if they want and many kids are like it naturally perhaps from copying how their parents behave - it’s far from being exclusive to private schooling!

Well exactly! Perhaps this ‘teaching children how to interact with adults’ is a new thing, certainly nothing I experienced at school. Politeness, behaviour, table manners, etc I agree @IrishGirl2020 are far from exclusive to Private school children and are picked up from parents. I’d certainly question any notion that Private schools don’t produce monosyllabic teens, uncomfortable around adults. Absolutely not my experience. What they can produce is monosyllabic young adults with no real idea of how to communicate with young adults of the opposite sex.. absolutely my experience here!

It's been great for my DD.
There are always people joining her school and I'm not aware of any issues fitting in as such.

I do think that's maybe because it's an all girls school.

Girls schools tend to go from year 7, whereas the more traditional public schools (generally used to all boys now mixed) go from year 9 and you will possibly have missed the boat on the more competitive ones.

Is there a GDST school near you?

It really depends on what options you have. In the city I live in, there are 5 independent schools but only one would have suited my daughter

@MrsMiaWallis

Injust asked dd3 if she was happier at private than at state and she said yes - she said she likes the routine and the consistency- she knows her teachers well, the vast majority have been there for some time. She had 5 different maths teachers in 2 years at the state school - 4 left, 1 when she moved a set - so she didn't feel as though she had a relationship with any of them, wheares she really likes her current maths teacher who has been at the school for ages and she's had since just before lockdown. I suppose it's all very traditional and strictly structured and she finds that reassuring- perhaps that wouldn't suit all.

well her school sounds lovele. Good, glad she is happy.

But none of the reasons you gave are about being private!

I have kids at 2 secondaries.
At both schools the staff is stable, because they are good schools which attract and keep staff. They have good routine and conssitency (wtf how is that anything even to do with paying for your education??)
The vast majority of staff have been there for some time. Staff recognise me at dd2's parents evening becuase they taught dd1.
The schools both have many traditional values and are calm and structured places with high academic and behavioural standards.

I am just astonished that you really think these things can't be found in state schools

I am just astonished that you really think these things can't be found in state schools

I'm getting a bit sick of replying to these made up accusations. I presume you just like being outraged over nothing.

@MrsMiaWallis

I am just astonished that you really think these things can't be found in state schools

I'm getting a bit sick of replying to these made up accusations. I presume you just like being outraged over nothing.

I am not outraged. You have made post after post suggesting that things are only availabe in private. Don't be naive. If you post and say - the private school is good because.. and then list a set of things then it is implicit within your statement that you think those things are good becuase it is a private school.

Otherwise the statement is - my dd's school is good becuase.... and I would look for a school with those things.

Eveyr post of yours is down on state schools. You have been picked up on it by several posters. I am pleased for you that you have foudn a school that suits your dd. Great. But it is just that, a particular school.
There are good and bad schools in bothe state private, and even school which suit one child and not another.

Spectatularly missing form any o f your posts is the acknowledgement that your limited experience is not the whole story. Instead you just post another story about how good private is.

I am not offended, but I am pushing back at your comments becuase they are in the long run part of a problem we have in society which assumes private school kids have more to offer.

If you post and say - the private school is good because.. and then list a set of things then it is implicit within your statement that you think those things are good becuase it is a private school

Well, yes - its an excellent school, it suits my dd, she's happy there and it just happens to be a private school. I'm sure there are amazing state schools exist as you say, but there aren't any near me, sadly. Lucky you to have one, I'd far rather get what we have now but not pay a fortune every term!

Instead you just post another story about how good private is

..for my dds.

Yes, it's brilliant, I love it, fantastic school, my dds are doing well academically, socially, mentally and physically (lots of sport). Like you feel about your dds school. Aren't we lucky our dds go to the best school for them?

Same here MrsMiaWallace
I’ve yet to see an anti Private school post from a parent with children not at an excellent State school.
Do you think the majority of us want to pay for what we should get included in our taxes? I sure as hell don’t but we consider it necessary and as we are able to send the DC Private we do