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Secondary education

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Original poster

Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

258 replies

Diddlysquatty · 29/12/2020 10:49

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

OP posts:
AlexaShutUp · 30/12/2020 10:33

And a lot of the time, happy confidence in children doesn't mask anything, it's just the sign of a happy confident person.

Sure, but you are being very foolish indeed if you think that external polish necessarily reflects internal confidence. They are not the same thing at all. My dd is lucky enough to have both, but it is the inner confidence that really matters. Any parent who fails to understand this is doing their child a massive disservice.

Unfortunately, you can't buy true confidence and self esteem.

ittakes2 · 30/12/2020 11:02

We have twins - both went to different grammars by my daughter's grammar was unfortunately an exam sweat shop so we moved her to private in year 8. What you describe to me is a normal teen to be honest. My daughter is the same. At grammar she had a nice group of friends because the girls are in the same class together for all their school hours because they don't stream. My daughter's private is lovely and nurturing but she has struggled socially since most classes are streamed so she was forced to find friends in different classes. She is currently in a slightly toxic friendshipgroup but we realised its about coaching her on how to handle things and trying to shimmy her accross to another group. Unfortunately,. changing schools might not solve your problems. But I think puberty has a lot to do with why girls find high school challenging - their brains are changing and if you read about teen brains you will find this self consciousness normal.

MothExterminator · 30/12/2020 11:20

I think it is all about finding the right school for the right child (I know this is a cliche). It may be easier in the independent sector.

My understanding is that the independent schools (on average) have more focus on extracurricular activities whereas state schools (on average) have a more academic focus.

Our children are in independent schools and we selected different type of schools so far. DD1 is extrovert, happy, v.v sporty, musical, reasonably academic and extremely competitive in everything, including academics. Her best friend is shy, more sensitive, musical and reasonably academic.

For DD, we chose an independent, quite academic, very big secondary school which excels in sports. Her best friend is at a small independent, nurturing school which is good at getting the best out of shyer children.

They both have amazing music departments, but at DDs school, you need to be about grade 5/6 in year 7 to get even a bit of attention and the orchestra is extremely competitive. At her friend’s school, all musical talent is nurtured.

At DDs school, competition to get into the top teams in sport is fierce. At her friend’s school, you are in the team if you have some talent and are keen.

They would both hate each other’s schools, but thrive in their own.

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:19

@MothExterminator

I think it is all about finding the right school for the right child (I know this is a cliche). It may be easier in the independent sector.

My understanding is that the independent schools (on average) have more focus on extracurricular activities whereas state schools (on average) have a more academic focus.

Our children are in independent schools and we selected different type of schools so far. DD1 is extrovert, happy, v.v sporty, musical, reasonably academic and extremely competitive in everything, including academics. Her best friend is shy, more sensitive, musical and reasonably academic.

For DD, we chose an independent, quite academic, very big secondary school which excels in sports. Her best friend is at a small independent, nurturing school which is good at getting the best out of shyer children.

They both have amazing music departments, but at DDs school, you need to be about grade 5/6 in year 7 to get even a bit of attention and the orchestra is extremely competitive. At her friend’s school, all musical talent is nurtured.

At DDs school, competition to get into the top teams in sport is fierce. At her friend’s school, you are in the team if you have some talent and are keen.

They would both hate each other’s schools, but thrive in their own.

Good post.
flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:19

@MrsMiaWallis
‘meh I think polish is the confidence of a young person.’

Meh - I think you need to come and do a weeks work experience with me, I am really worried about your lack of awareness about the real world and how human problems are not erased by wealth and fee paying schools. 7% of people go to fee paying schools - are only 7% of people in Britain happy and confident? That just isn’t the world I see when I walk out my door. Human problems exist despite where you go to school, where you work, who your family are, which country you live in.

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:22

[quote flourandeggs]@MrsMiaWallis
‘meh I think polish is the confidence of a young person.’

Meh - I think you need to come and do a weeks work experience with me, I am really worried about your lack of awareness about the real world and how human problems are not erased by wealth and fee paying schools. 7% of people go to fee paying schools - are only 7% of people in Britain happy and confident? That just isn’t the world I see when I walk out my door. Human problems exist despite where you go to school, where you work, who your family are, which country you live in.[/quote]
Well, I'm quite concerned at how sanctimonious and patronising you are, but maybe we should agree to disagree?

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:28

@MrsMiaWallis must have been my elite education Grin

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:28

Injust asked dd3 if she was happier at private than at state and she said yes - she said she likes the routine and the consistency- she knows her teachers well, the vast majority have been there for some time. She had 5 different maths teachers in 2 years at the state school - 4 left, 1 when she moved a set - so she didn't feel as though she had a relationship with any of them, wheares she really likes her current maths teacher who has been at the school for ages and she's had since just before lockdown. I suppose it's all very traditional and strictly structured and she finds that reassuring- perhaps that wouldn't suit all.

RedskyAtnight · 30/12/2020 12:32

Injust asked dd3 if she was happier at private than at state and she said yes

Well, actually you asked if she was happier at School A than School B.
I'm not sure your DD's experience of 2 schools can be used to mean that all private school children are happier than state school children. In fact, presumably if she'd been very happy at her original school, you might never have moved her?

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:33

@RedskyAtnight

Injust asked dd3 if she was happier at private than at state and she said yes

Well, actually you asked if she was happier at School A than School B.
I'm not sure your DD's experience of 2 schools can be used to mean that all private school children are happier than state school children. In fact, presumably if she'd been very happy at her original school, you might never have moved her?

Did I say all are happier?!
flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:36

@MrsMiaWallis one school, one anecdote. So to counter you I give you the repeated rape of a pupil at Ampleforth in 2016 by a trusted teacher. Listen to the Times Podcast about it, you will not sleep at night. You cannot and should not make sweeping assumptions that children will be happier in all fee paying schools there is no nuance to that at all. Great that the move worked for your daughter, she sounds very happy and let’s hope her move to University is also smooth having been used to close relations with teachers. But you have made some very silly statements on this thread.

AlexaShutUp · 30/12/2020 12:42

I suppose it's all very traditional and strictly structured and she finds that reassuring- perhaps that wouldn't suit all.

Indeed not, I think dd would find a very traditional and strictly structured environment incredibly suffocating. She is naturally very disciplined and self motivated, but doesn't respond well to an overly controlling approach.

It's a shame that your dd had such a bad experience at her state school, but I don't think her experience is representative of all state schools. DD has an excellent set of teachers, and has very good relationships with all of them - we've had a couple of not so good ones in the past, but this year, they're great without exception.

I think a lot depends on the child. I can see how some relatively quiet, academically middle-of-the-road kids might feel a bit invisible in the larger state school classes. Those are probably the ones who are most likely to benefit from what the private sector has to offer, especially if they are also a bit lacking in intrinsic motivation and need an extra push to fulfill their potential. For those kids who naturally thrive in the state sector, the private sector has very little to offer. Of course, there is a huge difference between individual schools as well - there are good and bad schools in both sectors, and different approaches and emphases will suit different kids.

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:43

You cannot and should not make sweeping assumptions that children will be happier in all fee paying schools there is no nuance to that at all
That's why I haven't said ALL children are happier!

I am actually ignoring a lot of the goady posts (rapes - i mean fgs) and trying to talk to the OP as I have a child who moved from state to private in year 9. She's happier and I've tried to explain why I think that is.

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:43

@MrsMiaWallis there are plenty of people on this thread and others explaining they moved their child from one private school to another because they were unhappy - how do we explain this in your mono vision world? What about the people on this thread explaining they moved from private to state and their kids were happier? Can you not read other people’s posts and see how varied experiences are and there is no one size fits all answer to anything?

MrsMiaWallis · 30/12/2020 12:45

For those kids who naturally thrive in the state sector, the private sector has very little to offer

Now who's making sweeping statements 🤔

SoupDragon · 30/12/2020 12:45

there is no one size fits all answer to anything?

She hasn't said that though has she?

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:48

@SoupDragon have a scroll back

RedskyAtnight · 30/12/2020 12:48

@MrsMiaWallis people are taking exception to the fact that you are using your DD being happier at one school than another to "prove" that private school children are happier in general. Whereas, in fact your DD is happier at her current school than her old school, and it's not clear whether one being private and the other being state had anything to do with it at all. I know children who have moved from private to state and been happier at state. I know one child who moved from state to private and then back to state because it turned out that private school wasn't better (for him). I don't attempt to claim that this means anything other than those individual children were more suited at different schools.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2020 12:55

[quote flourandeggs]@SoupDragon have a scroll back[/quote]
I have and everywhere she seems to make it clear that she is referring to her own experience only.

AlexaShutUp · 30/12/2020 12:55

Now who's making sweeping statements

Not me. I have made it very clear that some children might benefit from what the private sector has to offer, and I have also qualified my statements by acknowledging that different schools suit different types of kids and that there are good and bad schools in both sectors. I'm merely saying that some children really thrive in the state sector and don't really need what the private sector has to offer.

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:56

@RedskyAtnight. Agree. It was the sweeping phone generalisation that did it for me - never heard such utter nonsense.

SoupDragon · 30/12/2020 12:56

Anyway, this is ridiculous as there are as many different state schools are there are private and as many different children with different personalities.

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:58

@MrsMiaWallis. You have told us all about DD2 and DD3 - so we can have the complete anecdotal picture was DD1 more happy at fee paying school too?

flourandeggs · 30/12/2020 12:59

@SoupDragon exactly. And the vast majority of them struggle with their relationships with mobile phones which was the sweeping generalisation that really goaded me by @MrsMiaWallis and that is as a parent and a professional!

TramaDollface · 30/12/2020 13:03

My children are happy at prep but they’re academic types who just thrive in that environment.

However they’re not very outgoing and the school is full of overly confident types which
I would have found difficult and I do wonder if they find it draining.

The money thing is a myth.... I couldn’t tell you who the rich parents are really, most people are like us. I don’t think children notice really, I also went to a private school and I still couldn’t tell you, even in retrospect, who were the wealthy ones