Impossible question - but do you think children in private schools are ‘happier’?

[Diddlysquatty]

I’ve posted a bit about my yr 8 Dd.
High flier confident and bright and primary, she’s not enjoying her large (1500) ofsted outstanding state academy secondary.
She’s become quite down, self conscious, and had friendship issues. She’s not very motivated with school work and tends to do the minimum. Dismisses a lot of subjects as boring and says they don’t matter as she won’t do them for gcse anyway. Marks are ok but achievement has slipped a bit. Obviously impossible to say what role lockdown has played.

I’d offered her the option of changing schools at the height of the friendship issues (she’s in a bit of a toxic foursome) but she said she wouldn’t like to start again somewhere.

We’re coming into some money that means private would probably be possible and my mum apparently said to my husband over xmas, when asking after Dd, that they’d like to help if we wanted to move her.

He’s keen on the idea from an academic perspective. I think he thinks in a smaller, private school they’d pick up on and help with lack of motivation, and filling any gaps from lockdown.

I’m just not sure whether we should even consider it.

The pressure at school is one of the things she complains about - she’s in top sets and in a tutor group that’s doing a special language immersion stream (supposedly) so is with generally more able people.
Surely this aspect would be worse at an academically selective secondary?

Could they really help with motivation or would it make no difference?

It does sound like the teachers are beaten down where she is but there’s no guarantee this would be different at private is there?

I know that some people choose private for academic or social reasons, but what about well-being? Are kids more likely to come out well balanced and resilient, or is the opposite true if there is more competition, issues of wealth etc?

I know I’m asking the impossible but would appreciate thoughts.

I went to a small private all girls school and there were definitely lots of mental health issues going on there!

I know my husband doesn’t agree but I’m not so fussed about grades - apart from the extent to which this would boost her - but most of all I want her to be happy and feel like she’s fulfilling her potential

No. I think there are far too many variables to be able to assert kids tend to be happier at private or state schools.

I don’t think you can generalise about private and state - because it just depends on the particular school. I know 2 people who either moved from private to state or chose state over private (even though sibling went private). One was due to bullying, another preferred the state school (v good one).

Keep talking to your daughter and exploring options. There is no guarantee she would find it better in the private school and may find it worse. However, it may be good to find out more about the different options, talk to parents from other school, look into other options at her current school (eg changing classes), enthusing her about something with an out-of-school extracurricular class

most certainly not, I work in a private school.

I know unhappy and happy kids at state and private schools

Agree with some of the other posters that schools vary a lot. If the private school has great pastoral care it might well be a good choice. That is assuming it’s not highly academically selective as a school chock-full of high achievers is unlikely to help with self confidence.
If it were me, in addition to thinking about changing school I would use the extra money to concentrate on finding extra curricular activities outside school that your daughter might enjoy and become good at - music/singing lessons, private horse riding lessons, Lamda lessons, tuition in a subject she does enjoy - whatever she thinks she might enjoy. An interest that she can develop on her own in her own time outside school can really help with general confidence inside school I find.

I don't know many super confident, happy, sporty (important to us) kids from our local state school, many of them seem monosyllabic and glued to their phones, whereas I know many from private school.

That's my anecdotal experience, like others on the thread.

@IrishGirl2020

Agree with some of the other posters that schools vary a lot. If the private school has great pastoral care it might well be a good choice. That is assuming it’s not highly academically selective as a school chock-full of high achievers is unlikely to help with self confidence. If it were me, in addition to thinking about changing school I would use the extra money to concentrate on finding extra curricular activities outside school that your daughter might enjoy and become good at - music/singing lessons, private horse riding lessons, Lamda lessons, tuition in a subject she does enjoy - whatever she thinks she might enjoy. An interest that she can develop on her own in her own time outside school can really help with general confidence inside school I find.

Yes to extra interests. Would she like horse riding? It’s a really good way to get out of yourself - being around animals, taking care

Not for everyone but when I take Ds it’s a great place to go.

Are the schools academically selective? Maybe better to not be. Also check how many new starters they get in yr9. Being the only one might get harder on her if she is shy.

Nope. Friendship issues snd bullying exist in private schools. However our one was very effective in sorting it out.

I am disheartened by how little students are pushed if they are not self motivated. Teachers do know the student and suggests ways of improving - but still the student needs to want to improve.

Some kids totally thrive in private schools with the pastoral care and offer of activities (if they participate). However for some kids it is money better spent elsewhere eg help them on property ladder or even fund hobbies etc

I don't know many super confident, happy, sporty (important to us) kids from our local state school, many of them seem monosyllabic and glued to their phones, whereas I know many from private school.

Perhaps your social circle is rather narrow.

My dd is super-confident and very happy, but not particularly sporty - she prefers the performing arts, which is fine by me. She has plenty of sporty friends within the state sector, though, including some who compete at national level.

I don't find any of her friends to be monosyllabic and glued to their phones, though I'm sure there are plenty of kids who fit that stereotype. DD isn't really interested in those kids, I guess.

I do agree that privately educated kids can seem superficially more confident, but having worked with hundreds of young people from both the state and independent sectors, I quickly learned that the outer confidence is often just a veneer, and many outwardly confident young people can be desperately insecure inside. They are just a bit better at hiding their vulnerability, that's all. Some state school kids might not appear quite so polished on the outside (depending on what they have been exposed to), but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are any less happy or self assured than their privately educated peers.

Ultimately, confidence and happiness stem from so many different factors - innate personality, family background and parental attitudes, early childhood experiences etc. School is just one part of the jigsaw, and no single school will meet the needs of each individual child. It's about understanding what your child needs and finding the environment that is best able to meet those needs. Reducing it to a comparison between state and private schools is far too simplistic, as there are so many other factors at play.

@AlexaShutUp

This is purely anecdotal, but I was really shocked at the prevalence of mental health problems amongst my privately educated peers at Cambridge. Perhaps it was coincidence, but my state educated friends did not appear to have nearly so many problems.

I found the same - particularly the ones from the top London schools. Even those that didn’t have specific mental health issues seemed permanently dissatisfied with life - they were never clever enough, never thin enough, sporty enough, etc. etc. And it carried on into their lives afterwards - constantly thinking they didn’t have a good enough job, big enough house... I think it was probably due to the constant comparison with their peers at school.
From what I hear private schools have become much better at managing this with good pastoral care etc so maybe it is better now but it certainly isn’t clear that private school will make you happier. Totally depends on the fit of the school for the child.

Perhaps your social circle is rather narrow perhaps!

I'm glad we moved my dd for year 9, OP. She's now halfway through year 10 and I don't regret it in the slightest - and yes, she's much happier than she was at her old school.

Does your dd want to move?

Ds was utterly miserable and we removed him.

I'd move her if there was a strong yr 9 intake and the school was the right fit for her.

My DD's private school mixes up all the forms in year 9 to help newcomers mix and fit in.

My DD's school is all about bringing out the best in an individual - academic, sporting, artistic etc. It's not highly pressured but it seems to motivate DD to work really hard. She has a brilliant friendship group who are similarly motivated. Her teachers seem to know her and her potential. She had outstanding support during lockdown and honestly we couldn't be happier.

Try a school with a large intake into Y9 (after CE) , which might avoid the "latecomer" issue.

Honestly you could have issues at any school relating to friendships - it's impossible to predict what random bunch of people are thrown together, although certain schools do draw people from similar backgrounds depending on location, boarding vs day, parent professions etc. Just like state schools. Equally you could have problems with her motivation at any school regardless of how amazing the teachers are.

Most schools are anti bullying and have kindness amongst their stated core values these days, so the only way to find out what a place is really like us to do as much research as possible & don't believe everything you read on Internet forums with regards to "reviews".

If you want to move her, visit the schools, talk to the headteachers, ask all the questions, talk to as many staff as possible - obviously all much easier in a non-Covid scenario. Involve her in the process. As they say "looking is free"!

I just had to move my DS (8) and we did a lot of looking. We've chosen the new place as we felt it had the right balance for him, even though we looked at other schools which we were impressed by too. Even now I refuse to say it's the right thing as only time will tell, but we made the best decision with the information available at the time.

DS 16 is at a good for round here independent which makes it average in national tables. Agree with all the PP who have said it depends on the school. I have a couple of grumbles about it but looking at the whole picture it's been a good fit for him and he's doing well.

I completely agree with the being seen element. I was worried early on when the head knew DS's name but turns out the head teaches a year 7 class each year to keep his hand in and get to know pupils early on. In contrast a friend's husband is a deputy head in a 2000+ secondary and admits most students don't know his name/role.

I went state for yr7-11 then private for 6th form. Both had pluses and minuses but I am convinced I got decent A levels because of the move.

With regard to yr8 friendships, DS school changes all the forms around at the end of year 8 to shake out these issues (definitely not streaming).

You might find a new school rekindles interest in music too. PE is inclusive in that Zumba and yoga are offered alongside competitive sports. I would at least take your DD to see other schools.

No. I work with kids from both sectors and they have the same problems - mental health, issues with family/parents, addiction issues, self harm, eating disorders, depression, suicidal thoughts. Teenagers at secondary school are all attending ‘institutions’ and these are hard places to exist for many people, it is for most people, whatever sector they were educated in, one of the toughest times of their life as their brain changes from child to adolescent whilst surrounded by peers going through the same. What I would say is that if she wants to go to uni she might be better off learning how to deal with the issues that come with larger classes and less handholding at the state school as this will be closer to her experience at Uni. Teach her how to face and deal with these issues now whilst she is under your roof and your guidance and then she will have the skills and resilience once she gets to Uni. If you wrap them up too tight they have to come out into the cold at some point - far better under your roof than at Uni. Year 8 is worst year with girls, year 11 with boys.

Bit daunted by talk of common entrance and 13+ intake - the schools I was thinking of are not so much public schools as independent privates, with mainly 11+ intake I think. Although at half term when things were really bad I did check with one that they had a space in the current yr 8 (subject to assessment)

Thank you for all your helpful comments

I think I will work out whether it’s actually an option financially then ask her if she wants to have a look.
@flourandeggs your last point is one of the reasons I wanted her to go to this school, I thought if she can do well there then that will stand her in good stead for life.

The talk of happy children with brilliant friendship groups who are all highly motivated is great... dds current friends are very highly motivated and come from similar professional family backgrounds etc., but she has just lost that, someone up thread mentioned that their child probably isn’t interested in the children ‘like that’ - i.e. the monosyllabic non sporty ones glued to their phone. I’m worried she’s drifting more towards that and would feel even more alienated in a class of very keen, very motivated and confident kids.

.... or it could bring her out of herself!

On paper she has/had lots in common with her little group of friends. In reality there seems to be a lot of them putting her down, snide remarks arising from competitiveness and general bitchiness.
But that’s another story and I have had helpful advice on the friendship stuff on another thread - she has now realised they’re not the nicest friends to have and is trying hard to branch out

well in answer to your question, no.
I don't think you can generalise. So much depends on the child, the school, and the social group they are in.

I went to private, I was moderately happy, I met some very unhappy girls and some perfectly happy ones. Their happiness tended to be associated with their family situation usually.

I have a year 8 dd and 2 older ones.

I think this year has been crap. In year 7 you do a lot of friendship making and adjusting to secondary. But they didn't get to do that, so they are on the back foot. My dd found lockdown hard, she didn't stay on top of things, she is top set, academic etc, but couldn't manage the oraganisation.
So going in to year 8 she has been on the back foot, as probably has your dd. School is encouraging them to work hard, almost as if they are cramming in what they have missed, that hasn't really helped. Friendships have been hard as they have been in bubbles with their tutor group, but dds friends are in another tutor group and so on.

I think a lot of what your dd is experiencing is due to 2020.
Have you spoken to school?
Also, 13 is a rubbish age, so many hormones, the pull between being a child and a teen, it is really hard.

No easy solutions, just want to sympathise and say I am not sure private will make the difference, but she does sound as if she needs something

@Diddlysquatty just bear with her. I have experience of my own girls, my step sister and numerous teens through work. Their brains are being rewired (imagine them like larger more spotty toddlers). For a while they will seem very different to the child you knew. Hormones, period cycles, sexual awakening, work and test/exam pressure ...what a bloody malestrom to be dealing with. They have no idea who they are, what they want, but they often know who you want them to be and rage against that because they know that they can, you are safe, you won’t leave them (you might want to!) Their brains finally stop developing at 25 (scary hey!) and then they will be more like the child you remember them being, rediscovering things they loved in that more innocent stage - walks, reading books, talking even!! Let loose the reins of expectation, let your daughter work out who she is and be there for her whoever that person is (sexuality, attitude to work, how she fits in to friendship groups, introvert or extrovert.) Right now she is going through a complete body and mind revolution and you are there to help from the sidelines. Everything she learns along the way will stand her in great stead for adult life. Find yourself a mentor with older children, read books on teenage brains and try as much as you can not to judge her, just watch as she pushes up her stalk and unfurls her leaves and finally a beautiful flower 🌺.She isn’t you, she isn’t who she was as a child, but I have a feeling she’s going to be a rather wonderful version of herself - eventually.

totally agree with flourandeggs

But reassured, ds ia 18 and already human again. Dd1 at 15 is doing pretty well.

13 is the pits

I’m sorry you and your dd are going through this difficult time.

I have 2 dds (now 18 and 15, both went state primary and private secondary) and year 8 is a difficult time friendship-wise for many in this year. They are changing fast, finding themselves and friendships come and go. This will be just the same at a private school.

The benefit of a private school will be more individual attention but they can’t motivate an unmotivated child. There can be a lot of pressure from the teachers if it’s a selective private. Teachers are under pressure to deliver results to maintain the business. This can have two negative consequences. Some pupils don’t respond well to pressure and this can be detrimental to them. Some, of course, thrive under the pressure. There is a tendency to spoon feed and they don’t learn independent study skills.

In the end it is about finding the right school for your child and private schools just widen out the choice. You are best placed, together with your dd, to find the best fit.

Reading your description of your daughter...you’ve mentioned lacking motivation, hiding behind her hair, losing interest in her activities. Have you considered if she might be depressed? How is her appetite and her sleep?

@MrsMiaWallis

Lots of parents think they know what's best for their kids, for all sorts of reasons im sure they do, but if the kids are unhappy then in my experience they listen. Are you some sort of school counsellor?

That will be why teen suicide rates are rocketing.

@MrsMiaWallis your anecdotes do make me giggle. I was telling you on another thread that I was catching up with a friend who is deputy head at a very famous prep last week and one of the things he was telling me about was the use of phones - they take them off the kids and then the kids usually have at least one secret phone sometimes two. They are up at night in boarding houses on these devices and it is a nightmare to police. Porn biggest problem with the older year 7 &8 boys often parents have no idea about phone number 2 so no filters. To suggest state school children more likely (even in your anecdotal opinion) to have more of a problem with phones is really verging on ignorance. Believe me money buys better tech and more tech. All kids have problems with phones they are addictive things!

It's all down to each individual child, and which school environment suits their own particular personality and educational needs.

But having just re-read your comments again, there is a lot of mention about what you and your DH think about private schools. Have you actually broached the subject with your DD? She's the important one here.