Parents try to stop children being taught about trans relationships

[julie333]

As far as I know, parents will no longer be allowed to take their children out of Sex Education from 2020.

The subject was debated in the Halls of Westminster yesterday (25 February).

Whatever parents' opinions may be about trangenderism, I do think ultimately it´s the parents who decide what their children should be taught about this matter and not the State.

"The UK Conservative government is set to announce plans for the introduction of lessons on homosexuality and transgenderism for primary school students, despite an official petition against the move, signed by over 100,000.

The Sunday Times reports that the new curriculum has been finalized after a six-month consultation with the Department of Education, and will be rolled out across UK schools starting from the 2020-21 educational year.

It will be taught to pupils from the age of five, and it will be illegal for parents to take their children out of the classroom for the lessons in secondary school, meaning that at least a term’s worth of sex education classes – and likely far more – will be attended by each student."

If you wis to sign the petition against compulsory Sex Education,then here is the link:

Give parents the right to opt their child out of Relationship and Sex Education

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235053

So there's still hope for you!

The people who told you this are wrong. The EA allows for single-sex exemptions. These can be invoked even in the case of someone who has a gender recognition certificate (which no child could have, anyway).

Obviously I know that. But this person who advises schools said a child undergoing a “social transition” falls under the gender reassignment category because nowadays it’s not all about hormones and surgery.

I’m very well informed thanks to MN but the vast majority of teaching staff have neither the time nor inclination to research this subject in enough details to counter the nonsense they’re fed by advisors such as the SEF. They just want to get on with teaching and not be called a bigot.

Our primary have always invited us in to see what they will be taught in SRE. I presume this will continue. Obviously take the opportunity to go in and view any materials or ask if this isn't offered as I'm sure everyone here would. We must keep talking to our children, teach them to question and most importantly keep an eye on what they are looking at online.

My kids are both very accepting but there's no way if they were told a huge proportion of people are trans or because they didn't conform to stereotypes, they are trans. I have faith that my kids will get the balance right.

That’s great you’re confident your DC will be ok.

Most of us on here feel the same but we’re challenging this ideology for all children, not just our own.

Our primary have never shared what they will be doing in SRE!

Not that it bothers me.

The thing with primary children is they are very black / white. Younger ones in particular seem very very keen on regressive sex stereotypes.

There is no way to teach about trans other than sex stereotypes, which if you look at the material aimed at children this age, is what it is. There's a lot of boys in frocks and girls with short hair and so on. Then you get mermaids (was it mermaids) with their Barbie to GI Joe scale.

Primary age children esp younger ones will lap this up. They already have strong views (where do they come from?) about what boys are like and can do vs girls. The amount of primary school parties I went to where ALL girls were dressed as a disney princess and all boys as superheroes was mind boggling.

These children need to be taught about smashing sex stereotypes.
Teaching them that some children "feel" like the opposite sex "inside" inevitably maps to preferring things coded for opposite sex.

This is not good. It is regressive.

I also had a chat with DD when she was about 9 and she had heard of transgender and was under the impression that people could literally change sex. Why would she not think that? She had no experience or underlying knowledge or scepticism to think "hold on, is medical science really that advanced?". So when they teach about girls transitioning to boys, the children (unless they are told) will take this literally. Why wouldn't they? And no school is going to get onto surgery and the reality etc.

Plus of course sports and the idea that girls must allow anyone into their spaces who wants in, irrespective of how uncomfortable they are (because they know a complaint or even a question will label them as bigot and there might be other consequences)...

People can't change sex.
Telling children that they must believe that male people are female is gaslighting.
Telling them they are not allowed to question anything is really dodgy.

Our primary have never shared what they will be doing in SRE!

That's a shame. We get a letter just before they are about to do it. They have sometimes had sessions that parents are invited to. They give the parents a talk, show material used etc. Other times they say the material is available to view if you want to have a look at it.

Our primary is amazing though!

Our primary is amazing though!

As I said - great for you. But for those of us with an interest in keeping all children safe, it’s not enough.

As I said - great for you. But for those of us with an interest in keeping all children safe, it’s not enough.

And as I said in an earlier post:

We must keep talking to our children, teach them to question and most importantly keep an eye on what they are looking at online.

So please don't try to say I don't care about all children. I do. Including those struggling with issues like those talked about on threads like this.

Has everyone misses the bit of the guidance where it says that the policy on the subjects has to be made in partnership with parents?

The bit they have to teach is in the tables - I didn’t see trans in there.

Obvs the proof is in the pudding, but it reads to me like ‘teach this content in a way that doesn’t disrespect people’s sexuality and gender and work with parents.’

The content is as long as your arm, they’re going to have about 30 seconds to cover trans before they’re on to something else!

I don't even know when SRE is going to be done. We've certainly never been advised or offered to opt out. Is that a thing that's supposed to happen?

Not that I would as I wouldn't like them to be singled out and there is a lot of good stuff in there.

My view on the trans side is that it is regressive (sexist) and homophobic so I really don't understand how it fits with the equality etc message they are trying to give WRT other protected characteristics.

My issue UnderMajorDomoMinor is that the guidance takes for granted the whole premise of "gender identity". It won't feature in the teaching table because it is implicit.

"Pupils should be taught the facts and the law about sex, sexuality, sexual health and gender identity in an age-appropriate and inclusive way.

YY gender identity is pretty nebulous and not well defined

Many people don't have one (no matter what stonewall etc say)

children who don;t (ie lots) will take away that they are one of a range of "queer" gender IDs >> sending off towards ideas like binding

I can see how this plays out easily

as someone who didn't "fit" the gender role prescribed to me when I was young

Lots of feminists feel this way
We noticed how we were treated / disliked the things were we were supposed to like / resented that "pretty" was the thing we were most supposed to be aiming for & be flattered by when it was said and so on

We are the kids who would have perked up when an opt out of sexist social norms was mentioned

That's why it is feminists in the main who are not having it

So please don't try to say I don't care about all children.

I didn’t

If someone had suggested there was a way that I could like scifi when I was 10, and people wouldn't raise an eyebrow,
And also to stop them fucking banging on about my looks

I would have grabbed it with both hands

Why do people think that so many nicey nicey lefty lentil weaving feminists are up in arms about this?

Is it really harder to think hmmm maybe I'll have a listen to what they say, than OH LOOK all these dyed in the wool softy lefty nicies who have been super-pro minority rights etc for decades have suddenly and for no reason turned into far right loons?

Here's a little insight into what primary children are being taught in Brighton and Hove - that boys can have periods too!
This is why people are so worried :

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/boys-can-have-periods-too-primary-pupils-are-taught-hg5lb85mp?shareToken=c916569be651a71c5734b389fc85a836

I didn’t

You implied I didn't care about all children by saying:

But for those of us with an interest in keeping all children safe, it’s not enough.

As if I wasn't included in 'those of you' who had an 'interest in keeping all children safe.

Oscar it's transparently obvious that Family means children other than yours, children who's parents might not have the ability or inclination to check what their own children are doing on line and keep the lines of communication effectively open with their children and home. Your smug "that's a shame" and so on very much implies an "I'm alright Jack" attitude and disinterest in the welfare of other people's children where parents lack skills or intellectual, material or other resources to be hyper vigilant and on the ball. Children from a home with a lone parent with poor communication skills, mental health problems, money problems and a lack of it skills, for example...

Thanks, blueskies - those are exactly the children we should all be concerned about.

And oscar, (whispers) this isn’t all about you.

Your smug "that's a shame" and so on very much implies an "I'm alright Jack" attitude and disinterest in the welfare of other people's children where parents lack skills or intellectual, material or other resources to be hyper vigilant and on the ball.

And oscar, (whispers) this isn’t all about you.

I'm allowed to think differently to you. Its obvious what you were implying but you can pretend otherwise. I'm very invested in all children's welfare, if you actually knew me you'd know that. I guess that's the downside of forums, it's just a snippet of someone's life and views. I have spent the last 15 years on and off working/volunteering with 11-16 year olds, TALKING TO THEM, not just my own children. That's what my last post meant. Our children as in the wider 'our'.

But this isn’t about your volunteering work, oscar, not matter how much you want to impress with it.

But this isn’t about your volunteering work, oscar, not matter how much you want to impress with it.

Lol. You said I am not aware of the situations of other children, other than my own. I mentioned my volunteering and working with children to show that I am. But you knew that already.

Oscar I don't like that the discussion here has included personal insults to you.

You are indeed entitled to hold your own opinion which may differ from others on the thread.

My frustration stems from the fact that you appear to be relying on safeguarding at an individual child level. By that I mean, relying on schools, teachers, parents and volunteers to "get it right".

The discussion here is about safeguarding at a more fundamental and wider level. We're discussing national policy guidance with statutory requirements. This is the first safety net for all children - but especially the most vulnerable. No safety net is foolproof, but when a hole is identified it is negligent to ignore it.

The unsubstantiated inclusion of "gender identity" and the implications thereafter within the policy, is in my opinion a significant "hole". It allows schools to develop policies which have even more "holes" e.g. by involving organisations such as Stonewall and Mermaids or even simply not challenging the idea that being a girl or boy is about how you "feel".

And many parents will rely on what schools tell them so there will be parents who accept as correct what they are told.

There also many parents who simply do not engage with schools so miss out on any guidance or discussion.

Each of these layers create more "holes" for vulnerable children to fall through. If that initial hole in the national guidance were blocked - I believe there would be fewer children falling through the gaps and ending up confused and damaged.

OscarIsaacsEyes how on earth are you keeping an eye on what other people's children are looking at on line?

The kind of talking to children a volunteer does in school is very patchy - it may profoundly affect a minority of children but certainly can't be comprehensive enough to count as keeping the lines of communication open with and keeping an eye on the internet usage of or misconceptions and confusion of most children. Its very much a scatter gun approach.

If you introduce confusing and potentially damaging mass information dissemination to all children you cannot rely on damage limitation done after the fact on a micro level because it is too haphazard for the most vulnerable.

Oscar I don't like that the discussion here has included personal insults to you.

Thank you. It's unfortunate people feel the need to do this.

I do think that gender identity needs to be discussed in schools. Whether we like it or not, children are coming across it as an issue in real life and on the Internet. School is the place that will reach most children so I feel it's only right it's addressed there. I've already said that I believe only a small number of people are directly affected and are trans. I think some children do think it's more common than it is due to things they are seeing online. Its therefore really important that schools can talk about it to get that fact that across to children and that its totally 'normal' to not fit stereotypes.

I do have absolute faith that schools will address it from this angle. There is no way that schools will allow children to be told that if they don't fit gender stereotypes that they are likely to be trans. But children should absolutely be told that a small number of people may be trans and that its ok. By talking to them about it, I feel it actually protects them from the extreme youtubers for example that seem to be 'recruiting' vunerable children that may feel they don't fit in and pushing trans on to them.