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Secondary education

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Original poster

Parents try to stop children being taught about trans relationships

275 replies

julie333 · 26/02/2019 13:18

As far as I know, parents will no longer be allowed to take their children out of Sex Education from 2020.

The subject was debated in the Halls of Westminster yesterday (25 February).

Whatever parents' opinions may be about trangenderism, I do think ultimately it´s the parents who decide what their children should be taught about this matter and not the State.

"The UK Conservative government is set to announce plans for the introduction of lessons on homosexuality and transgenderism for primary school students, despite an official petition against the move, signed by over 100,000.

The Sunday Times reports that the new curriculum has been finalized after a six-month consultation with the Department of Education, and will be rolled out across UK schools starting from the 2020-21 educational year.

It will be taught to pupils from the age of five, and it will be illegal for parents to take their children out of the classroom for the lessons in secondary school, meaning that at least a term’s worth of sex education classes – and likely far more – will be attended by each student."

If you wis to sign the petition against compulsory Sex Education,then here is the link:

Give parents the right to opt their child out of Relationship and Sex Education

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235053

OP posts:
RaffertyFair · 28/02/2019 10:40

*Its therefore really important that schools can talk about it to get that fact that across to children and that its totally 'normal' to not fit stereotypes.

What you are describing there Oscar is sex stereotying not gender identity.

RaffertyFair · 28/02/2019 10:42

"Gender identity" is entirely dependent on accepting sex stereoypes. The gudance accepts the concept of "gender identity" before any discussion has taken place.

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 10:50

What you are describing there Oscar is sex stereotying not gender identity.

Exactly....a child said to me the other day that 'her toddler brother liked dressing up as a princess....but that doesn't mean he will be trans does it ?' This was sadly a genuine question from her, not a statement. Some children do think that not fitting in with stereotypes means there's a high chance they are trans. And that's because it online, kids are discussing it. They are confused because there is so much rubbish out there. Schools need to be given the opportunity to talk about this in order to give them the correct information and reassurance.

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 10:51

"Gender identity" is entirely dependent on accepting sex stereoypes.

I disagree.

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 10:54

so how can anyone identify as the opposite sex? Given that sex is not a feeling. It is simply not possible to know how it feels to be a boy if you are a girl.

And I am getting the impression that, as far as girlsd are concerned at any rate, what a lot are doing is identifying away from their sex. That also does not make you the opposite sex and needs to be addressed very differently.

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 10:55

Sorry, posted too soon.

I disagree. I think kids are confused and many are basing it on sex stereotypes. For others, like the trans woman I know, her gender identity is much more than that.

SalliSunbeem · 28/02/2019 11:01

5 is too young in my opinion for Sex education, let them be children for gods sake

RaffertyFair · 28/02/2019 11:09

Gender is a social construct. The word is now widely used instead of the word sex which is erroneous and massively confusing. There is no more scientific evidence for having a gender than there is for having a soul.

How do you define "gender identity" Oscar ?

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 11:19

How do you define "gender identity" Oscar ?

I personally find this difficult. The trans woman I know says that's because I've always just felt OK so Ive never needed to think about it. For her to feel OK she needed to be female.

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 11:22

but your friend can have no idea what it means to feel female. Not before they transitioned and not now (because they aren't female, as female is sex).

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 11:28

RiverTam

I know what you are saying. I suppose we'll never know unless we've gone through it ourselves now. She sees herself as a woman. Those that love her class her as a woman. She's happy and she wasn't before. She knows that not everyone accepts her as female.

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 11:35

yes, I understand that.

But that is not a concept that can be taught to children, and should not be taught to children as fact.

I'm afraid I can't share your firm belief that this will be handled well by schools. Too much of what I've read and seen over the last 3 years has shown that systematic safeguarding failures at policy level are endemic as far as trans is concerned. I'm sure there were people who believed that prisons would get it right - and then there was Karen White. I'm not prepared to risk any girls' safety for this.

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 11:40

I'm afraid I can't share your firm belief that this will be handled well by schools.

Only time will tell. I will be the first to complain if trans is in any way 'promoted' by schools.

GerryblewuptheER · 28/02/2019 11:41

Exactly river

If it's not sex
If it's not stereotypes
And no one can explain it because it's a feeling inside somebody else

How do teach it?

You just cant

Schools are full of girls who have been raoed abused harassed etc think about how it would feel to then to have everything they have been through reduced to a feeling in some one else...

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 11:44

Only time will tell

tell that to the four women who were raped or sexually assaulted by Karen White when KW was placed in a women's prison. I guess time told then and that cost was all right with you?

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 11:54

RiverTam

I'm not going to change the topic to trans and women's prisons. Those events were awful obviously. However, coming back to schools, those events do not mean that trans issues shouldn't be taught in schools in my opinion for all the reasons I have given in my previous posts.

GerryblewuptheER · 28/02/2019 11:56

But teach how?

What is it.

Without using stereotypes, without using the words woman/ female . What is trans.

You can't identify as something you cant define. So what definition are we using to tell kids what a person is?

buzzbobbly · 28/02/2019 11:56

How do you define "gender identity"

I was listening to an old John Humphrys audiobook on language earlier

There was a segment about the difference between the words 'gender' and 'sex'. JH relayed the comment of a correspondent who said she now describes herself as "neuter" if asked for her gender, because she doesn't align with either masculine or feminine. I might copy that.

buzzbobbly · 28/02/2019 11:58

Exactly....a child said to me the other day that 'her toddler brother liked dressing up as a princess....but that doesn't mean he will be trans does it ?

A child said that?
Not the far simpler and age appropriate 'her toddler brother liked dressing up as a princess....but that doesn't mean he is a girl does it ?^?

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 11:59

it's not changing the topic - it's challenging the assumption that schools will get it right, and that 'time will tell' is acceptable in this environment, or indeed any environment.

The number of girls presenting as trans has sky-rocketed and any attempt to look into this is crushed by TRAs. Schools can't afford to get this wrong, there can be no indulgence of 'time will tell'. How many healthy breasts will be damaged by binders, how many bodies sterilised, during that time?

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 12:05

A child said that?

Yes. Age 9. This is why we need to talk to kids. They are watching stuff online, some are under the impression that trans is 'common'. One boy said he seen something online that said something like 30% of people are straight, 30% gay, 30% trans. He didn't believe it but kids are being exposed to this.

GerryblewuptheER · 28/02/2019 12:08

So then what do you plan on teaching them?

Define trans.

Define a man and a woman in ways a kid understands that expresses it's more than stereotypes.

If you cant then you cant teach it can you

RaffertyFair · 28/02/2019 13:33

How do you define "gender identity" Oscar ?

I personally find this difficult.

Precisely!!! Although I don't think it's difficult - I think it's impossible.

How can you be confident about talking to children about something you acknowledge you can't even define?

RiverTam · 28/02/2019 13:43

the only way you can approach it is to treat it like religion - 'this is what some people believe'. There is simply no other way.

OscarIsaacsEyes · 28/02/2019 14:17

Precisely!!! Although I don't think it's difficult - I think it's impossible

It's not impossible. For most people it's not an issue because they just feel ok. Its just feeling comfortable in your own skin, with my female body, I'm at ease. It's not something I need to question. My trans friend didn't feel this, until she transitioned. There will be children feeling like this as my friend did. It is a difficult thing to explain when your gender identity feels right. I'm sure trans people would explain it much better.