Parents try to stop children being taught about trans relationships

[julie333]

As far as I know, parents will no longer be allowed to take their children out of Sex Education from 2020.

The subject was debated in the Halls of Westminster yesterday (25 February).

Whatever parents' opinions may be about trangenderism, I do think ultimately it´s the parents who decide what their children should be taught about this matter and not the State.

"The UK Conservative government is set to announce plans for the introduction of lessons on homosexuality and transgenderism for primary school students, despite an official petition against the move, signed by over 100,000.

The Sunday Times reports that the new curriculum has been finalized after a six-month consultation with the Department of Education, and will be rolled out across UK schools starting from the 2020-21 educational year.

It will be taught to pupils from the age of five, and it will be illegal for parents to take their children out of the classroom for the lessons in secondary school, meaning that at least a term’s worth of sex education classes – and likely far more – will be attended by each student."

If you wis to sign the petition against compulsory Sex Education,then here is the link:

Give parents the right to opt their child out of Relationship and Sex Education

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/235053

Well my children have RS lessons. That's not evidence based either.

But religious belief taught is not as fact Oscar that is the whole point.

Would you be happy if your children were taught creationism as fact? Because that is the equivalent example.

Well my children have RS lessons. That's not evidence based either. They are not at faith schools and teachers seem to do just fine.

So why aren't they teaching gender identity ideology as a 'some people believe' topic?

Some people believe that they can be born in the wrong body.
Some people believe that they can change sex.
Some people believe that there is such a thing as a 'girl brain' and a 'boy brain'.

The problem is that they are teaching unsubstantiated beliefs as facts, and nobody is allowed to question these beliefs or disagree with them.

can you imagine the uproar if Muslims or Jews or atheists were told they had to believe in Jesus the Son of God and if they didn't they were horrible mean bigots? We booted this kind of thing out of schools decades ago and here is exactly the same kind of belief being ushered back in.

It’s sad. Trans culture being pushed onto our kids. As others point out a whole other heap of issues exist including autism and the gender confusion or gender discussion leads to a govt based hands off approach for parents and the marching of these kids to the slaughter house for sex changes. We as people are so enamored by the brain washing that we say it’s okay. Give it a few more years and the regret will set in. People will see what’s really happening. Damaged kids will become damaged teens and damaged young adults. Only when they turn around and say to ya what the heck did you do to us, and we will see the current movements and groups pushing transfender and the government folk on board and supporting these movements will all retire to the country in their govt paid salaries and they will disappear and leave everyone else to deal with the mess left behind. Meanwhile folks let’s just keep agreeing with letting our kids be given drugs and being operated on so they can become mermaids or switch gender. Gosh it’s fun isn’t it. It’s like watching a horror unfold.

Isn't there a contradiction here? Gender stereotypes will not be tolerated, but 'gender identity', which is just gender stereotypes, must be explored respectfully

I don't think so. The trans woman I know didn't transition because she wanted to wear pink and frills. She had issues with her own body. Having spoken to her, her wanting to be a woman had nothing to do with gender stereotypes. She has many trans friends who I don't know but she said that it been the same for all of them.

I think if you actually speak to a trans person, you realise that a lot of what you read on the Internet is just exaggeration.

So why aren't they teaching gender identity ideology as a 'some people believe' topic?

i suppose the difference is, we have transgender people living in the world today. We can see them in front of us. I can't say how they feel is wrong.

but it's a feeling, Oscar and feelings shouldn't trump facts - but for some reason on this issue they do. Trans ideology, along with everything else, is extremely anti-science.

We have Christians, Jews and Muslims living in the world. Their beliefs are their own private business and they don't get to foist their beliefs on everyone else and force everyone else to live accordingly. If I'm chatting to a Christian friend I am not obliged to agree with her views.

That’s daft, Oscar. Just because someone feels or thinks something doesn’t mean it’s true.
An anorexic at deaths door might look in the mirror and think “ I’m fat.” Does that mean we should let them starve themselves?
Either facts, truth and reason are valuable guides to human existence or they’re not. I think they are. You want to chuck em out and let feelings rule your life, go you on ahead. Don’t make me collude with it.

I think if you actually speak to a trans person, you realise that a lot of what you read on the Internet is just exaggeration.

What does your friend know about what is happening in schools across the country right now?

My experience is not from the internet, it's based on what is happening to people in local comps.

Many students are the ones "fired up" by the internet - by youtubers and instagrammers etc. preaching an alternative reality and proclaiming certainty about rights etc.

If a confused or unhappy teen who is exploring and questioning "who they are" (as young people have always done), explores the idea that they are a boy instead of a girl or vice versa, and chooses to use a different name to and chooses to use different pronouns, teachers are genuinely terrified to do anything other than go along with this for fear of being called a bigot or even losing their jobs for 'misgendering' a student.

Basically the rest of us should not have to get involved in validating someone's personal beliefs about themself. But that is what happens when we are told to call Jimmy Clare and use female pronouns.

My experience is not from the internet, it's based on what is happening to people in local comps.

I'm just not seeing it. And people are exaggerating like the Pp who said her school are teaching that a boy with a doll is told they are a girl. I just don't believe it, it's exaggeration. I think the Internet is more to blame than schools.

Basically the rest of us should not have to get involved in validating someone's personal beliefs about themself

I just don't have an issue with calling someone by their preferred pronoun. It's not a big deal. I would hope they are getting the support they need from parents though.

I don't really have anything else to say. I accept people's views are different to mine. I try my best to understand and be tolerant of everyone. I make sure my kids can talk to me and teach them to question things they see. I'm very confident my kids school will get this stuff right.

The trans woman I know didn't transition because she wanted to wear pink and frills. She had issues with her own body. Having spoken to her, her wanting to be a woman had nothing to do with gender stereotypes.

Presumably your friend has gender dysphoria. This is a medical condition, and your friend was treated for it. So how would you teach about this condition to children? It's a rare condition affecting only a few thousand people in the UK. Why do we need to teach children about it?

Let me describe what happened at my workplace, Oscar.

A man transitioned to female and an email came round telling us all that Jack was now Jill.

A colleague in my department was off on long-term leave when this happened and so missed this email (several months later). She happened to go into the department where 'Jill' worked, came back and was pretty confused: 'what happened to Jack, is that him in IT?' - on being told yes she said 'but that's a man, right?'.

Well. The department manager (who completely bought into this) proceeded to silence and reeducate her straight away and no discussion was allowed. It was actually pretty chilling, every time colleague tried to speak she was ridden over.

I never saw this person when they were Jack, but I did as Jill, and they looked exactly like what they were - an adult human male dressed as a woman. The cognitive dissonance required by their colleagues on a daily basis must have been huge.

I try my best to understand and be tolerant of everyone.

Unfortunately there are some people who are very intolerant of those of us who don't think we all have an innate 'gender identity'.

Oscar I think you got fixated on that one sentence and are using that alone to disregard genuine concerns based on real life experiences.

I would have just called her Jill and been done with it. Clearly Jill was going through some stuff. Don't make it harder would be what I'd think. There's nothing to 'buy into'.

I just don't have an issue with calling someone by their preferred pronoun. It's not a big deal.

Agreed. But it's not just calling someone by their preferred pronoun. It's changing in front of them, showering in front of them. Letting them participate in female sports. Letting them onto all-female shortlists.

The trans woman I know didn't transition because she wanted to wear pink and frills. She had issues with her own body. Having spoken to her, her wanting to be a woman had nothing to do with gender stereotypes.

Presumably your friend has gender dysphoria. This is a medical condition, and your friend was treated for it. So how would you teach about this condition to children? It's a rare condition affecting only a few thousand people in the UK. Why do we need to teach children about it?

Just as other people have different forms of dysphoria e.g. relating to a belief that they "should be" disabled.

This woman has a form of dysphoria which means she believes she should have been born blind.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-stories/i-blinded-myself-drain-cleaner-7568340

Oscar this isn't about being polite and using pronouns. This is about SO much more e.g.

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/feb/24/terry-miller-andraya-yearwood-transgender-sprinter/

How is this fair?

I completely trust my children's schools. I wouldn't send them there if I didn't.

It’s not just about the schools, oscar.

I had a long conversation with the head of training at the Sex Education Forum about how we, as a school with a high number of traveller children, might introduce the notion that a child who says they feel like the opposite sex has to be treated as if they are the opposite sex, and how to explain to those parents why their daughters are being forced to change for PE who boys who say they are girls.

I was told I didn’t have to worry about that - just quote the Equality Act and tell them that if they don’t go along with it, they’re breaking the law.

This is a charity that advises schools in the UK.

Agreed. But it's not just calling someone by their preferred pronoun. It's changing in front of them, showering in front of them. Letting them participate in female sports. Letting them onto all-female shortlists.

I have views on all these things but I don't really want to get into a debate on it. I won't change my mind and I'm sure you won't change yours.

I won't change my mind and I'm sure you won't change yours.

As I said earlier, I have in fact changed my mind - I thought as you do some years ago. So there's still hope for you!

I was told I didn’t have to worry about that - just quote the Equality Act and tell them that if they don’t go along with it, they’re breaking the law.

The people who told you this are wrong. The EA allows for single-sex exemptions. These can be invoked even in the case of someone who has a gender recognition certificate (which no child could have, anyway).

Thank you for debating thus far Oscar. I just wish debate was allowed elsewhere - especially in schools.

But it has kept the thread active and I know that there will be a great many lurkers who will have read or will read this in the future so I'm sure eyes will have been opened.

I skim read the government draft document that a PP mentioned and I was mostly Ok with it. Then I saw that Stonewall was listed as a resource and now I'm starting to have doubts....