Should the DfE be offering £26k bursaries to train as a Classics teacher?

[noblegiraffe]

Given the recruitment and retention crisis and the school funding crisis, is it really the best use of funds to be paying £26k for teachers to train in Classics (and then presumably sod straight off to the private sector)?

Although I doubt they're expecting many takers, it does seem to display completely messed up priorities.

I'm half wondering if Toby Young has said he needs more Latin teachers for his WLFS and the DfE has, as ever, pandered to his whims.

One of my dc has the chance to do Latin. To my utter surprise, and totally out of character for the dc, they absolutely love the subject and it has massively improved their English vocabulary.

So you might be a bit unreasonable

Do you know what might else improve their English vocabulary? A qualified English teacher. They're in a dire shortage, yet they're only worth £15k.

Or in fact not teach at all as with the maths recruits! All bursaries should have a work commitment in the state sector attached to them - 5 years in my view. I guess this is a shortage subject and state schools/colleges do offer Latin and Greek and Clasical Civilisation which I guess they could also teach. I would not see it as a priority though. Perhaps Boris could do it?

No shortage of English teachers here!

I know, noble, that’s why I said “a bit” unreasonable.

And the dc’s qualified English teachers have helped too: the Latin just propelled a huge amount of progress.

Can we agree that it would be preferable for English teachers also to get massive bursaries, that the status of the teaching profession should be higher and pay scales should be approximately doubled?

Well maybe if classics were more welcome in the state sector the disparity of attainment in later between state and private school pupils could be at least a tiny bit diminished.

Classics has an asterisk for note 6. What does that note say?

The note says "Bursaries are available to trainees on a classics course where the course is in an ancient language (Latin or Ancient Greek)."

Here's the link getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/funding-and-salary/overview

I guess this means you dont think Classics are important then? I think its an important part of a good education and if there is a shortage then I dont see whats wrong with offering incentives.

What’s wrong with classics?

26k now regardless of grade. Looks marginally tempting again.

Then i remember the crazy workload and talk myself out of it

Eggs the disparity of attainment could be diminished by properly qualified teachers in the core curriculum subjects before we consider 'nice-to-haves'!

Only £9k for primary maths!

Gosh my bursary is nothing like as good as it was 10 years ago when I trained (secondary music) especially as I only got a paltry 2:1 (even though I do have a masters). Seems a bit crazy that you’ll earn more doing your training in physics etc than when you actually qualify though...

I guess this means you dont think Classics are important then?

I don't think that there are thousands of schools out there desperate to recruit Classics teachers and failing because of a shortage.

I also don't believe there are loads of parents out there desperate for their kids to do Latin or Ancient Greek. You can barely get them to do French.

History, RE and Music don't entail much of a sweetener either. Nothing at all for a 2:2 (that buys sensible enough).

Bit's^

My dd did classics but they did not offer it to ds. A lot of students enjoy it more so than history

I also don't believe there are loads of parents out there desperate for their kids to do Latin or Ancient Greek
I guess it depends where you live but over the years I have heard many parents talking about Classics being the sign of a good school and wanting their DC to do it.
A local state secondary school near me has just started a classics hub and is going into into several of the local primary schools teaching it, as there is a good demand.

No matter how good the English and MFL teachers are, studying classics improves the pupils. And unlike MFL you dont have to learn to speak them so they can be much more enjoyable and inspirational to some children.

DS is doing these and I’m really pleased as my school didn’t do Latin. He’s not keen on green though!

Greek not green.

Classics being the sign of a good school

So designed to appeal to a particular demographic of parent. Tory priorities showing...

God I just looked again, it's only £6k for primary maths. FFS?

What? Tories? Oh grow up!

So designed to appeal to a particular demographic of parent

That's a bit of a leap. So your only allowed to study Classics is your a 'Tory'? That just leaves me agog.

I am a bit shocked by only 6k for primary maths!

My DCs school really struggles with maths teaching, they could really do with a maths specialist.

My dd did classics but they did not offer it to ds. A lot of students enjoy it more so than history

INot so much an "it" as a "they"; Latin, Ancient Greek and Classical Civilisation in terms of GCSE and A-level.