DD given a Prefect role on a 'probationary' basis - singled out for not complying with school rules, which is news to us

[hmcAsWas]

Parents evening a few weeks ago. All favourable - dd works hard in class is meeting expected targets etc. No negative feedback.

Pupils were recently asked to apply if they wanted a prefect role. All those who applied were given prefect roles - with dd and one of her friends held back and spoken to separately. They were both told that they were on probation for half a term and their prefect roles would only be made substantive if they could prove themselves. Apparently they are not complying with school rules.

DD was aghast - apparently she rolls up her skirt too high. She has been told about this by her form teacher and she rolls it back down again when asked and has been complying without being asked recently. She and every other girl who has been selected as Prefects all do this - including the head girl, and dd is adamant she is no worse than anyone else. DD has complained to me previously that her Form teacher does not like her (or her friend) and is harder on her (and her friend) than on her peers and does not appear to be consistent or fair minded. She has given me a couple of recent examples.

It seems that dd now has this sword of Damocles over her and is sure her role wont be made substantive when the half term is up because she thinks her Form teacher will be looking to find fault

What to do?

That was to bluejelly regarding why she wants to do it

Have you never personally encountered an authority figure who took an irrational dislike to you
Yes. But as a teacher i simply dont get paid enough or have enough time to create pointless work for myself having a go at kids for no reason.

Try this situation. In my class i have a group of 3 16 year old girls who like to push the rules. They are brilliant in my class, but have their lazy/stroppy days like any teen. I get on well with them. They are absolutely convinced that 2 members of staff in school pick on them. But then ive equally seen them roll their eyes, shoot looks at each other when they see these 2 members of staff and have heard the way they speak about those teachers. Its not that those 2 teachers are picking on the girls at all. The girls choose to display good behaviour to me and are polite. They choose to be rude/stroppy and use the 'but riley was doing... i was only... why are you picking on me..' lines with my colleagues.

Equally, I have no doubt that some kids i have to pull up probably think im some mean nasty person and Mr Brown is so much cooler, chilled etc.

Teenagers can be pros at reporting selectively e.g. 'you proper yelled at us on monday miss' no i didnt. I told you to get on with your work.

Maisypops - I honestly do get that I only have dd's version of events (although naturally there is a tendency for me to give it some credence - she's my daughter). I am open to the possibility of being told that she is giving out attitude - but I just need to explore it a little with the deputy head because we've only ever heard good things about dd before, so this was unexpected. The situation might be exactly as you describe....but its possible that she isn't being treated entirely even handedly too. I am now making more of an effort not to prejudge the matter than I was at the start of the thread..

Have you considered what might happen if your right?

Lets say this teacher is in effect bullying your DD. You complain to the deputy head, they speak to the teacher, who will cover their back and give a list of issues with your DD.

Is the bullying teacher then going to back down or are they likely to retaliate on your DD for getting the deputy head involved?

If your right wont you make it worse?

hmcAsW
I hear where youre coming from. I only wanted to poibt out that just because a child gets positive things from everyone other than one teacher, it doesnt mean that teacher is singling them out or being unfair.

At an extreme I saw a colleague pushed out because a class decided mob mentality that they didnt like her. They were vile to her yet nice as pie when me and other more senior colleagues came in to sort behaviour. In the end the teacher left because they were done with me and other colleagues having to talk yo her about another complaint from that class (we knew and they knew the attitude from that group was awful).

Out of interest, why the deputy head and not head of house/year? Curious thats all as one thing that gets my back up is things being accelerated up the chain leap frog style before any reasonabke chat could happen with me/line managers.

I guess that email is your natural voice, hmcAsWas, so it's right for you. It may be important that you talk about what YOUR DD needs to do different, don't start comparing her to what others did or didn't do, or moan about what you were or weren't told before. I would have thought more like:

"DD tells me that she has a probationary place to be prefect, subject to her keeping a high standard of behaviour. Could I please meet up with you so that I'm completely clear in my own mind what DD needs to do different -- and therefore I can support her to do her best? Thanks..."

lljkk
Yes to your advice.
Focus on what the DC needs to do to sort the prefect out, not what the DC says hesaysshesays-wise about other kids.

As a complete aside is your daughter tall because if she rolls her skirt teice and so does her friend who is 6 inches shorter then it will appear shorter on a taller person. That may be why hers is noticed and others aren't. The probationary game captain position - is that probationary for the same reasons?

She is indeed tall. The Probationsry Games Captain thing is the Prefect role that I am referring to in this thread.

I think your letter is good, but it is a pity that you should have to write it rather than your DD. Why is she so keen to be a prefect? DD has made an application to be so, but that's because she wants to go to Medical School and that would be something she can put as evidence of taking a leadership role. However, she totally understands that as such, she will be representing the school and therefore will have to be a perfect role model. As such, you need to show a level of maturity, confidence and ability to take initiatives. How would she be demonstrating these skills if she needs to rely on mum to bring up her concerns?

Hmmm... when I was at school, I was the person singled out in my form. I certainly wasn't perfect but the things I was repirimanded for were very small fry compared to other students. If other students are not facing the same issue, I can see how your daughter sees this as unfair.
However, she is clearly testing boundaries here. I teach in a school with similar rules and too much time is spent on things like this. You may think these issues are pretty small but both deliberately flout rules. Rolling up skirts, non uniform issues etc. are a constant battle in school and if little suooort is given from parents, it can become a real issue. Would it have really hurt your daughter to have waited outside? If she is asked to stand outside, that isn't an invitation to find somewhere else in the school.
I think you need to be supporting the school more. If she works on this and it's still an issue, I'd go in. But your daughter is in the wrong here and you're only hearing one, possibly skewed version of events. As someone has mentioned above, events in school from the teacher's perspective are often very different.

OP - you said that you thought you had explained why it was that you needed to sort this out for her initially rather than her doing this for herself. However, I've read through your posts and I can't find your reasoning. I am assuming she is not primary school aged or with a condition that might affect her making this move?

Oh God please stay out of it. Tell your dd to buck her ideas up and behave like a model pupil. That's what the school are hoping she does. Good luck to them.

Cauliflower - she's 14 nearly 15, in Y10 and suffers from anxiety

Unless I am reading it wrong she IS a model pupil. From her Autumn report this year:
English: xxx is making excellent progress and is focussed and hard working at all times
Mathematics: xxx has worked conscientiously and well
Biology: xxx puts a lot of thought and effort into her work
Chemistry: xxx has had a very good term in chemistry
Physics: xxx works well in physics lessons
Art: xxx has worked extremely hard this term and produced some excellent work. I hope she continues with this conscientious attitude. She is an inspiration to her peers
Games: xxx chose both trampolining modules in the options programme and I have been delighted by the high standard she has reached in such a short time
History: xxx is a conscientious student and has made a good start to IGCSE History
ICT: I am confident that the will achieve one of the higher grades for this work. She has a positive approach to the subject. In live conditions [the assessed part of the GCSE module] has made a great start and is preparing brilliantly for these session
Physical Education: xxx has made a positive start to the theory course and has worked in quiet but diligent way
RE: xxx has tried hard in class and she is making steady progress

What a tearaway eh?

Then comments from the Form Tutor (who raised objections re her prefect role):
xxx is growing in confidence and has made much more of a contribution to the form group at the term has progressed.
It would be nice to see her volunteer for more roles of responsibility when the opportunity arises" - irony, much!

Hard for us to comment as we (and you) haven't seen what has caused the FT put her on probation but the FT has.

Agree with everyone saying you are way overinvested in this.
Yes, I have 3dc, youngest also in Yr10.
When my dc winge about something like this, I ask them they they think they could do about it.

Nope, not a tearaway but can still be capable of being irritating and difficult
with certain teachers. I don't thinks time needs to see her school report as most of us have a realistic idea of what teenagers can be like.
Completely agree with another poster who mentions a pick and choose mentality with some pupils and their attitudes to teachers.
I'd leave it be for the moment and leave your daughter to sort this out and analyse her behaviour- it's a good life lesson.
Current school- teachers involved in voting for prefects and it is difficult to vote for pupils who cannot demonstrate model behaviour. How is your daughter going to pull up another pupil for uniform if she can't get it right herself?

Aargh phone keyboard - I don't think we need to see her school report...

The fact that she is satisfying her teachers academically doesn't mean she doesn't have an issue with her behaviour/attitude that means that she is not yet seen as a role model to other pupils. More importantly, she might need to grow more confident to be able to tackle issues she will be expected to deal with as a prefect.

Cauliflower - she's 14 nearly 15, in Y10 and suffers from anxiety
If she suffers from anxiety, it is then even more important that you encourage her to deal with her issues rather than relying on you. Her Form Tutor is hitting that she needs to take on more responsibility. Discussing her feeling with her tutors and asking how she can improve is doing exactly that.

Ok well I would still say to give her the tools and reassure her that you are confident she can resolve this. Once she experiences success off her own back it will help her tackle things in the future.

The report isn't just about academics though is it? There's a lot about attitude and behaviour - did you miss 'diligent' 'conscientious' and 'inspiration to her peers'.

Sorry this doesn't add up - and I don't agree with the latter posts. I've tried hard to weigh up the varied posts and differing opinions prior to now as I did post genuinely seeking advice rather than confirmation of my opinion, but at this point I am going to follow through on my convictions. Having revisited her report this morning I am more convinced than before that I need to seek answers, not less convinced. This all came like a bolt from the blue and has been badly handled.

She tries damn hard and get this back. Incidentally she was walking down the corridor with the new Head Girl and the form teacher said "Hello new Head Girl. Roll your skirt down for me!" ....so this infringement stops my daughter in her tracks but doesn't prevent the other girl from being Head Girl. It isn't right, it isn't just, and I damn will say something (a lot more calmly than this mini vent on here)

Phew that felt better.

Yes I have my dd's back - so shoot me

Thanks again for the posts and advice - they have helped me crystallise my approach... but perhaps not in the way many of you anticipated.

"How is your daughter going to pull up another pupil for uniform if she can't get it right herself?"

Hmm - same no doubt applies to the Head Girl

Well, you've just mentioned that on the thread? It does seem unfair if that is the case but it seems like you also need to look at other issues. Completely understand you have your daughter's back but a significant issue in schools, regarding behaviour, is not being backed by parents and I hope you appreciate this side of the argument as well.

I've requested that Mn pull my post from 12.35 in case it is too identifying.