School/home contract...

[TaperJeanGirl]

Dd1 is starting secondary in September, I have just had the school/home contract through the post...and I don't agree with all of it! Some of it is common sense like making sure they are in school in correct uniform and on time, and similar, the part I don't agree with is the detentions, they want me to agree to them being able to keep her up to 15 mins after school without notifying me, this will cause problems on the 2 weekdays she does an outside school activity, and also cause me huge problems because I will be collecting her at 3.15 and then going on to nursery and school for my younger dcs..they also give out Saturday morning detentions..can't they even do this? Again, this would mean her ( and possibly 3 more of my children ) missing an out of school activity, that's paid for in advance, I suppose what I'm asking is did anybody else disagree with the schools contract? The after school detention is easily sorted if they could just text me or let her text me to tell me she will be 15 mins late and I could do the other pick ups first, but the Saturday morning detentions just won't be happening...can they withdraw her place if I don't agree?

Spin I agree, although this is not that common in the kind of misbehaviour common in schools. I am genuinely of that school of thought, and have a pastoral school role, but the vast majority of behaviour is not caused by this. The very slim minority that is, is dealt with differently but sanctions are still imposed, just sometimes at a different rate or method.

If a child is violent towards me it is not my first job to 'understand them'. I have the right to go to work without being threatened or violently attacked.
Punishments and pastoral care can happen at the same time you know.

Well, so sanctions become an acceptable part of our culture and the sanctions are carried on, and passed on by the government to 'failing schools'.

Ok- what do you think should happen to a student if they misbehave?

If a child of mine did anything bad enough to warrant a Saturday detention-(I have one who's 15, one who's 20, and have only heard of 2 of their peers getting Saturday detentions in all their Secondary school lives)- then they sure as hell wouldn't be doing anything but sitting in their rooms contemplating their sins for the rest of the weekend!

Leslie it depends very much on the why they did what they did.

Spin

"Some people have unfortunate anxiety / stress initiated, inbuilt violent responses, which are very difficult for them to overcome and control without support"

What happens when the child has none of the issues that you posted?
What happens when there is no support at home?
What happens when they repeatedly use the excuse of 'wider family life' to get out of sanctions?

What if one of the reasons is that they don't really have any boundaries at home or respect for other people and therefore they don't like to follow rules and like to tell teachers to fuck off or they like to make other students' lives miserable?

Of course there are often lots of reasons why students misbehave but as a teacher I think sanctions do have their place. Young people work well with boundaries.

Boney, Leslie well then they (as a first priority) need to more fully understand why the natural consequences of their negative behaviour, long term, would be worse than the sanction, along with understanding the intrinsic value of behaving well. Because, tbh, sanctions can be suffered quite easily, especially after the shock of the first.

How would you do that? It sounds great. I teach approx 400 students so how could I manage to do that with them? Of course I'm not their only teacher, so how would you propose that sort of thing could happen in a large school?

Also as a parent- if a student was bullying your child would you expect them to have any sort of sanction?

Leslie through PSHE or the equivalent, with extra programmes for those continually undergoing sanctions.

If a student was bullying my child, my first priority would be that my child was kept safe. So if this meant a period of internal isolation / separation for the student (perpetrator) in question, this would have to be what happened, but for safety reasons not punitive ones. I would hope they received more support than merely sanctions because I would be concerned they understood how what they did was wrong and how to control their impulse to do it. Otherwise it could just continue if the sanctions were not deterrent enough.

spin

your recommendations are what schools do, admittedly some do it better than others.

OP, as you and others have said, the shift to secondary school is likely to be quite an eye-opener for your daughter.

There are various recent threads about how to prepare for Year 7 - you can help your daughter with her organisation, adapting to meeting homework deadlines, and in general so that she is less likely to receive a detention. Have a look at those other threads, but in general (I'm a secondary teacher), my advice would be:

• write down everything in the homework diary. Everything!
• if you haven't done the homework, try to tell the teacher and apologise in advance, don't sit there until the end of class hoping for a magic solution
• have several copies of the timetable in key places at home e.g. near the front door / on the fridge, on her homework desk, in the car, etc. and highlight key things to remember such as P.E. kit
• try to do homework on the day it's set, even if the deadline is further away
• pack the school bag the night before
• always keep books and school equipment in the same place at home (there's lots of ideas about this on the other threads)
• one pencil case for school (stays in the school bag at all times) and one for home

I hope she enjoys secondary school and gets off to a good start.

Schools seem to vary hugely as to how quickly they give out detentions. Many of DDs friends are at a school where everyone has had 1, if not 2, detentions in Y7. Whereas nobody in DD's class (different school) has had one so far.
It does make me wonder about the sheer administrative burden involved in managing 1000-2000 detentions per school year.

The information systems schools use make it relatively straightforward tick. A friend's school has stopped using detentions for missing homework but instead if they miss apiece they have to attend compulsory homework club that day after school for 1hr. It is manned by staff from each subject and apparently it's been really effective. If kids are being lazy and not competing then it is an effective deterrent, if they are genuinely struggling then they get extra support. Parents get a text at lunchtime to inform them. The detentions are kept for disruptive behaviour etc.

Apple - my last school implemented something similar at the request of the students. Homework related was lunchtime detention held on specific times (manned by SLT to ensure all teachers used the system) not after school due to large catchment area. Behavioural matters became Friday after school as the students said they had to be a bigger deterrent.

Great tips from Lockedout at 00.36. As well as the timetable on the fridge to check what books/kit dd needs there's a list to go through of what else she may need eg. Money, water etc. Dd doesn't have the motivation to do the hwk on the day its set unfortunately. But does do it in time.
They need to get their planner signed each week by a parent or i think they get a detention. I just sign for the whole term as i know I'd forget. I do check it regularly though.

If a student was bullying my child, my first priority would be that my child was kept safe. So if this meant a period of internal isolation / separation for the student (perpetrator) in question, this would have to be what happened, but for safety reasons not punitive ones. I would hope they received more support than merely sanctions because I would be concerned they understood how what they did was wrong and how to control their impulse to do it. Otherwise it could just continue if the sanctions were not deterrent enough.

Pity the victims don't get the same attention -

One of mine was bullied and it nearly destroyed her - luckily she had me fighting her corner - she got nothing from school - bully did though - hooray!!!!

'BertrandRussell

If a child of mine did anything bad enough to warrant a Saturday detention-(I have one who's 15, one who's 20, and have only heard of 2 of their peers getting Saturday detentions in all their Secondary school lives)- then they sure as hell wouldn't be doing anything but sitting in their rooms contemplating their sins for the rest of the weekend!'

Yes. And if the rest of the family missed out on a weekend event it would also NOT be the schools fault.

Any good activity/club for young people should support school detentions. I know ds's old karate club would expect them to be absent if they weren't applying themselves in school so much they got detentions.

If your dd getting a detention means she misses her activity and potentially risks her grading then that is a natural consequence and hopefully will prevent further detentions.

Saying you will not support the schools detentions if it means missing the activity will do your dd no favours in the long run.

If a parent said that little Johnny wasn't doing a detention (not for a good reason like a medical appointment, just because they didn't agree with it), then the usual policy at my school would be to treat it as a missed detention and escalate accordingly. A missed lunch detention becomes a half hour after school, then an hour, then an hour SLT detention, then a day in isolation.

Lockedout they are fantastic tips, I'll def be doing those, I've had a nose on the other tips thread and it's really helpful, can I ask why the one pencil case for school one for home? We have just got all of dds stationary and she's so excited to be taking it to school.....how amazing is smiggle

And the compulsory homework club mentioned further down for not bringing in homework on time sounds like a great idea, I hope this is a policy at the new school.....

If schools want parents to support them and work wholeheartedly with them, schools need to understand that sometimes they too need to compromise. I fully support the right of schools to give detentions but not no-notice after school detentions, that's neither reasonable nor practical.
Ime schools do present themselves as more hard arsed and inflexible than in reality they are. The prospectus etc may say "detention for forgetting equipment" but as the teachers are generally experienced, intelligent, sensible professionals, they will understand that children transitioning from primary school may need a little leeway whilst they get used to secondary school. They may make ridiculously over the top statements about detentions and other penalties for "altering their uinform whilst travelling to and from school" (as one we are looking at for ds1 does) but in reality, they know it would be petty, unsupported by parents and a real waste of everyone's time to enforce it.
The staff tend to be far more reasonable and normal than the written policies imply, as long as the children are not taking the poss.

If she asks politely whether she can send a text to you to inform you that she has a detention, i cannot see a reasonable teacher objecting to that providing it is not during a lesson. She could even send one from the toilet if it came to it.

If detentions were convenient, they wouldnt be a deterrent. She needs to do everything she can to avoid getting one.