School/home contract...

[TaperJeanGirl]

Dd1 is starting secondary in September, I have just had the school/home contract through the post...and I don't agree with all of it! Some of it is common sense like making sure they are in school in correct uniform and on time, and similar, the part I don't agree with is the detentions, they want me to agree to them being able to keep her up to 15 mins after school without notifying me, this will cause problems on the 2 weekdays she does an outside school activity, and also cause me huge problems because I will be collecting her at 3.15 and then going on to nursery and school for my younger dcs..they also give out Saturday morning detentions..can't they even do this? Again, this would mean her ( and possibly 3 more of my children ) missing an out of school activity, that's paid for in advance, I suppose what I'm asking is did anybody else disagree with the schools contract? The after school detention is easily sorted if they could just text me or let her text me to tell me she will be 15 mins late and I could do the other pick ups first, but the Saturday morning detentions just won't be happening...can they withdraw her place if I don't agree?

Surely the best solution is to avoid detention.

Yes, the best solution is absolutely to avoid detentions in the first place, I'll do all I can to make sure she doesn't get them, I might be worrying over nothing, if they can legally keep them in and won't sway on informing me there's not much I can do, I don't want to find another school as we were one of the lucky ones and got first choice, ( I've also just spent hundreds on her uniform!)
I will not be taking her in for Saturday detentions though, I'm not having her miss the activity she's done since she was 6, punishments should take place in the school week, weekends and holidays are my time.

Sorry, but if your child has done something serious enough to warrant a Saturday detention then of course you should do it.
In my 11 years at my current school we have had around 25 Saturday detentions they are a big deal. One was to a boy who threatened me, he should have been playing rugby for the year 11 team that day. Thankfully the parents were mortified and supported the school. The head of games was pissed off.
Detentions are a punishment. The idea is you miss out on something. Sorry, if you think it's harsh, but if you lose money due to the repercussions of what your child has done, it is the child's fault not the school.

yes, they can withdraw her place if you don't sign, and yes any school can keep her back for 30 mins, any day without informing you.

Your whole attitude bodes very ill for her secondary school career. Why would you be assuming she will get detentions, rather than drumming in to her that she must not?

I will not be taking her in for Saturday detentions though, I'm not having her miss the activity she's done since she was 6, punishments should take place in the school week, weekends and holidays are my time.

To be honest, I think you should withdraw her anyway, this response is totally unreasonable, and you are certainly not in harmony with the ethos of the school. Not only will your daughter become a battleground between her parents and her teachers, but her presence is going to erode the time, effort and energy all other staff and parents are putting into instilling discipline and prioritising education.

You will drag everybody down

Either sign, and commit to the home school agreement, or find another school right now, before she even starts

Saturday detentions would surely be as a result of a very serious incident or a series of failures to attend week day detentions.

If my dd had done any of that I would definitely expect her to go in on a Saturday. Why would you not?

You seem to be seriously over thinking all of this and expecting the worst from your dd.

I won't be withdrawing her, and of course I will try and drum it into her not to get them at all, that's the goal, the paperwork I was sent seemed to imply detentions were given for very small reasons, if that's not the case then there won't be a problem as she will never be given a Saturday one, she's not the sort of kid who will go out of her way to break the rules, my original post was just to ask if anybody else had disagreed with the contract, I wasn't aware of some of the points in it before I accepted her place, and she's my eldest so I have had no dealings with a secondary school.

What are the small reasons? I doubt they give Saturday detentions for small reasons.

In my (albeit patchy) experience, schools which take partnerships with parents seriously do not go in for same day detentions, seeing them as too high-handed and a general hindrance to successful behaviour modification (as they want parents and school working together, not school acting solo when impact might be on other family members unconnected with the misbehaviour).

That doesn't mean that they don't use detention. Just that they use it differently.

Ive got 2 in secondary.

They've both never had a Saturday detention but they've had quite a few whole class detentions meaning that they are late out. It's not like primary where a finishing time of 3:15 means they are out at 3:20 at the latest.

Noticing that you are hoping that the school will make her more focused and less likely to day dream and forget things but are making clear that you are not in sympathy with their sanctions. Children pick up on how parents are, not just what they say, so good luck with all that.

as they want parents and school working together, not school acting solo when impact might be on other family members unconnected with the misbehaviour

so I take it your "rather patchy" experience doesn't actually cover parents who take no interest in their child's education, parents who have no control over their children, parents who might not actually even be in the same country or on the same continent as their children, or parents who think they are entitled to undermine the school's discipline policy cos their special snowflake is too busy on a Saturday morning, and they are naturally exempt from the normal rules and regulations

I won't be withdrawing her so sign the contract and commit to it.

The previous poster who said the signature is not legally binding is of course correct. The contract is legally binding when your child enrols at the school. The signature is just a symbol of that, and a helpful visual reinforcement for the child. if you are withdrawing your child, then you are agreeing to Saturday detentions, if she earns any.

Practically, OP, you could tell your daughter that you will only wait for her until a certain time and if she is later out she must go to the library.

For all the posters arguing for same day detentions and Saturday detentions because they cause the most 'inconvenience', I think they are being short sighted. A home school agreement is meant to be compiled in 'consultation' with parents. The whole ethos should be about cooperation, not causing the most inconvenience or being punitive towards families who have a child who has problems concerning their behaviour. Behavioural problems can occur for a whole variety of complex reasons, punishing a whole family for one child's behaviour is not the answer.

The school might not change policy because of one parent but it often takes one parent to raise an issue which many feel strongly about and offer support to. Otherwise we'd be left with lots of outdated practises such as caning.

I think you misunderstand my point. And anyway, damn right the boy who threatened me with violence should have been prevented from doing something fun! We don't give out detentions for fun as they inconvenience the teacher too.
I was objecting to the attitude that due to a pre-arranged activity a child would never do a Saturday detention.
I was a serial homework avoider and was withdrawn from something I enjoyed. It was consider a privilege to do these things by my family and privileges can be revoked.

Same day detentions, could also pose a bit of a safeguarding risk - if parents cannot be informed of the whereabouts of their children. This is especially pertinent in areas where there is high incidences of violent crime, such as the OP's.

Doctor, I think in the case of the violent boy I would be more concerned in determining why he is violent and preventing this, than whether he gets to play Rugby or not.

He was threatening violence because he was entitled and didn't like being in trouble. He also thought the rugby team would always get their way. He was wrong. It worked.

And how did you determine his motivations, Doctor? Was there a jury?

Believe me, this boy had no issues. He was just entitled. I am one of the first to excuse behaviour when necessary. If he had a problem it was being sexist. I don't make a habit of judging students unnecessarily but you seem to have decided that I am wrong and there must be a 'reason' for his threat. The reason was I reported his best friend for touching my thigh when I was trying to help him.

Need, well the OP said upthread that being uninformed was the main area of concern. This is what would concern me too. Although in the case of potentially missing medical appointments I think there should be a facility to defer. Why should our overburdened NHS suffer?

Need - thanks I'm not a vindictive teacher.

By the way just because we can keep students on the same day, doesn't mean we do. And all research suggests that consequences should be as close to the event as possible. Most of my students get contract buses so keeping them in after school is impossible. I consider it unfair to only use the punishment with some of my students and so don't use it.