School/home contract...

[TaperJeanGirl]

Dd1 is starting secondary in September, I have just had the school/home contract through the post...and I don't agree with all of it! Some of it is common sense like making sure they are in school in correct uniform and on time, and similar, the part I don't agree with is the detentions, they want me to agree to them being able to keep her up to 15 mins after school without notifying me, this will cause problems on the 2 weekdays she does an outside school activity, and also cause me huge problems because I will be collecting her at 3.15 and then going on to nursery and school for my younger dcs..they also give out Saturday morning detentions..can't they even do this? Again, this would mean her ( and possibly 3 more of my children ) missing an out of school activity, that's paid for in advance, I suppose what I'm asking is did anybody else disagree with the schools contract? The after school detention is easily sorted if they could just text me or let her text me to tell me she will be 15 mins late and I could do the other pick ups first, but the Saturday morning detentions just won't be happening...can they withdraw her place if I don't agree?

A medical appointment is a sound reason to miss a detention a club is not. Hope that helps.

Doctor I asked you a question, but passed no judgement, regarding your apparent satisfaction, regarding the boy's punishment, shown in the tone of your post.

Personally, violence and threats of violence sadden me, as does the need for punishment. It would be something I would be looking to prevent. If that requires changing a school culture, I would be looking at ways to constructively do that.

Home/school contracts are a means of ensuring that schools and parents are in agreement about the expectations of behaviour and attitude and parents should be aware of those and support the school, unless they are patently unreasonable.

I used to hold a Friday after school detention for persistent late comers. It was a pain for me and my colleagues, but the answer for the student was to get to school on time regularly.

Detentions are not designed to be convenient either for the child or the parent. They are one of the few responses to breaking school rules that are available to schools. If you say that your child won't do them, you're saying that it's OK to ignore school rules and that you won't acknowledge them.

I would think that a Saturday detention would be very rare though and would only happen following a series of other sanctions and rule breaking. Sometimes, missing out on something you enjoy is the consequence of doing the wrong thing and might encourage doing the right thing in future.

If the school permits phones as long as they're turned off during the school day, the child could send a text at lunchtime or just after school if necessary. Obviously, having phones on during lessons isn't acceptable. Schools have landlines too and will contact parents in an emergency.

Personally, violence and threats of violence sadden me, as does the need for punishment. It would be something I would be looking to prevent.

Do you know what is effective at preventing violence/threats against teachers? Quick and harsh punitive action should it take place.

Need my response was to Doctor, regarding school culture, was because she mentioned there was a problem with sexism.

If we are talking about 'one off' problems with 'teenage cockiness' then surely punishment is neither here nor there, in that it has no discernible effect. Because child's behaviour is not persistent, a warning would most probably suffice. If their behaviour is a persistent problem, then it would warrant looking at more closely. I'm sorry, but you cannot claim there is no problem whatsoever with discipline in a school if they are handing out numerous detentions.

noble I'm not convinced by your claim. Surely this just creates more resentment, possibly more feelings of powerlessness and anxiety, a new enemy. It does not tackle the causes of violence.

Was there less crime when our country had harsher punishments? Did children learn better when they were caned? Or did we just create an underclass out of the most vulnerable people along with stamping on the rest?

Need I was merely responding to your's and other's posts, most recently the ones which referenced mine.

In answer to your question I have actually taught in the past and also worked with secondary aged children in another capacity. I have also a close relative who works with the most vulnerable of young people and know how serious things can get when these children are consistently failed.

They can't run a school with some students being given consequences and others being exempt because it doesn't fit around their school clubs. I thought my dd would get loads of detentions, as although she's well behaved, she's very scatter brained, slow at doing stuff etc. She's actually had none all year. I guess when she knows she needs to concentrate she does and her teachers seem like reasonable people. I guess i was forgetting that they have bigger fish to fry ie. Too busy dealing with the wilfully badly behaved kids to be constantly punishing ones who they can see are trying their best

Berries no one is asking for that. Rather that the consequences are given with some notice and some degree of sensitivity to possible additional needs. I don't actually see the need for Saturday consequences at all. Many schools don't employ them. Really an after school detention with notice with in school isolation should be enough. If Saturday detentions are being employed for serious infractions, surely there is a deeper problem which should be addressed.

To be honest I would pick up your younger ones first and then your eldest because it's not always as simple as the school ends at 3.15. Dd has to go back to her locker/ go to food tech to pick up her cooking/ meet "urgently" with a friend she hasn't seen in the last lesson/ the teacher might wait for the bell before handing out homework etc and then because of the sheer volume of students leaving nobody gets out on the dot anyway. Dd finishes at 3.10 but it's quite often 3.25 before she gets to the car.

Nothing you can do re detentions apart from not getting them!

Spin. I didn't say there was a community problem with sexism. I said this student was sexist. You implied I was unaware of special needs. I took offence at this as firstly, there were none in this instance, and secondly, I make it my business to keep abreast of any SEN issues at school. I have even done so this year while I've been on mat leave.
Some students deserve Saturday detentions.

Doctor where did I imply that you were unaware of special needs? All I did was question how exactly you could know, with any certainty, what the child in question's motivations were.

And a sexist attitude does not occur in isolation. It is a community problem, with schools being part of that community.

Tbh what I find most disturbing concerning the tone of your posts, as they come across to me, is the insistent surety on things which no one, realistically, can be that sure of. For example, a child's motivations and how you can be sure you are able to keep 'abreast of any SEN issues'. I have a child who has had some additional needs. These needs tend to be, by their very nature, dynamic and changeable. You would have to be very close to a child to pick up on all these changes, which if they are one of the many pupils you see at Secondary school, is fraught with difficulty.

Our secondary gives loads of detentions, especially in year 7 and I'm struggling to think of any child I know who hasn't had one.

I'm sorry you think that the hours of extra time I spend is not good enough. I know this because the incident was investigated. It was taken seriously and thoroughly looked in to. I was offered a lot of support to deal with the effect of his threats on me (I was a relatively young teacher at the time).As sure as you can ever be about anything, I am sure of that. If anyone disproved it and could come up with a valid reason for that individual's behaviour I would be thrilled quite frankly. The culture at fault was not the school's. We can't do anything about wider society sorry.
I work damned hard for all my students regardless of their needs, I NEVER write a student off completely as some do. Nothing makes me happier than when someone turns a situation around. Sorry that's not good enough for you and you think I'm a liar with an attitude problem.

I don't think you are anything, Doctor, apart from having your own particular bias. This shows in your posts. It doesn't make you a liar but someone who maybe cannot be totally impartial. We all have biases though. Mine are different from your's but that is why these types of conversations are important.

If schools cannot influence culture, though, why do we have them? They are meant to educate and 'close the gap'.

We do what we can. That's what we do. This particular student couldn't be reached by me. You have no idea how much that, in itself, upset me.
You have, however, pounced on me, when all I intended to do was to give an example of a Saturday detention being appropriate.

I think you are setting your daughter up to fail - especially as she has had a more liberal education up to now. Kids can and do easily pick up on things like this and will play up to it.

Don't set yourself up against the school. If you don't agree go somewhere else. A Saturday detention in a state school is very, very serious, she should of course miss her activity if that's the case. I don't understand why that then prevents the rest of your children going.

Most schools will try to work with parents - so if you explain that you pick up and pick ups are tight - they will probably be more than willing to either give you a text to let you know of an after-school detention or arrange it for the next night. As for Saturdays - where I have worked previously the child would either go into internal seclusion or external exclusion for a period due to missing the detention. It would be considered if it happened again for the relationship between school and home to have broken down and the child moved elsewhere or excluded - baring in mind that a Saturday detention would only be given for serious and persistent issues.

Doctor really, pounced? I have not been rude, or accused you of anything. I have only questioned what you have written in your posts. If you consider yourself above questioning, you really are in the wrong job!

Are Saturday detentions a fairly recent thing? Didn't know of any school doing them when I was in school. But now I'm imagining them to be like The Breakfast Club

I do not consider myself above questioning. I am not in the wrong job. I get excellent results, and the vast majority of my students don't hate me. One did. I told you he had no additional needs or reasons to act the way he did. You said how could I possibly know and I told you it was fully investigated (9 years ago - these things don't happen often)
But that's by the by, Saturday detentions are acceptable and should take priority over other activities whether you pay for them or not.

And OP, think it would be best to pick up your other children first anyway as secondary school children never get out on time.