School/home contract...

[TaperJeanGirl]

Dd1 is starting secondary in September, I have just had the school/home contract through the post...and I don't agree with all of it! Some of it is common sense like making sure they are in school in correct uniform and on time, and similar, the part I don't agree with is the detentions, they want me to agree to them being able to keep her up to 15 mins after school without notifying me, this will cause problems on the 2 weekdays she does an outside school activity, and also cause me huge problems because I will be collecting her at 3.15 and then going on to nursery and school for my younger dcs..they also give out Saturday morning detentions..can't they even do this? Again, this would mean her ( and possibly 3 more of my children ) missing an out of school activity, that's paid for in advance, I suppose what I'm asking is did anybody else disagree with the schools contract? The after school detention is easily sorted if they could just text me or let her text me to tell me she will be 15 mins late and I could do the other pick ups first, but the Saturday morning detentions just won't be happening...can they withdraw her place if I don't agree?

Spare us the hand-wringers

Firm boundaries, consistently and caringly applied are the best way of ensuring that teachers can do their actual job, which is teaching. A school that doesn't have teacher's backs, one that is constantly looking to excuse or downplay poor pupil behaviour is one that will find itself with increasing behaviour problems and an exodus of staff.

So why is it your opinion that I 'pounced', Doctor?

The incident I referred to nearly did make me leave teaching. As it happens, I came out the other side stronger because I was supported as you say.

School management should be impartial, noble. It should not be a form of 'old boy's club' where cronies 'have each other's backs'.

spinnaker you appear to be on the wind up. No one could actually be so stupid as to actually misunderstand what I mean by SLT supporting teachers in the face of poor behaviour by students, especially if we are talking about threats of violence.

What would you suggest schools do with a student who is violent to teachers spinn?

SpinnakerInTheEther

I wouldn't work somewhere that the management didn't have my back when I have been assaulted. Would you?

noble poor behaviour, even to the extent of violence, rarely happens in isolation. Although violence is undeniably unacceptable, nowhere have I said otherwise, you seem to be determined to ignore any responsibility schools, and the teachers within them, have, to take account of and tackle the contexts negative behaviours occur in.

Boney I would expect my safety and other's safety to be protected, however 'having someone's back' suggests a certain amount of side taking.

titchy investigate why the child is violent, involve other professional services, if appropriate.

poor behaviour, even to the extent of violence, rarely happens in isolation.

No? Really??! You mean poor behaviour isn't entirely spontaneous and totally unpredictable?

That doesn't mean it should go unpunished. Part of dealing with poor behaviour involves sanctions. Obviously a pupil's individual circumstances should be taken into account. Teachers aren't idiots or totally lacking in empathy. However, pupils, even vulnerable ones, need boundaries.

I work in alternative provision. All the children I teach are challenging. They pretty much all have a backstory, and some certainly also have MH problems and/or SEN. We do lots of work around this with them. We also have very clear boundaries, and there are clear consequences for not meeting expectations for behaviour.

SpinnakerInTheEther

I have had chairs thrown at me for doing my job, should that go unpunished? My offence was asking the child to do the work for their GCSE.

Yes, they may have other issues going on but I expect the SLT to "have my back" so that it doesn't happen again when they are back in my class the next day/week.

I have said nowhere that there should not be any consequences for poor behaviour, merely that parents should be rightly to be informed where their children are and that if behaviour is persistently poor it should be investigated. Saturday detentions are a blunt instrument and cannot act as a 'sticking plaster' to apply to every instance of persistently poor or severe behaviour.

I'm shocked that this needs to be said, really, and it clearly does, as my posts have come against such resistance.

You don't think that there is pastoral intervention Spinnaker

You think that schools are just throwing detentions at a problem?

You really have no idea, do you?

If Saturday detentions are being employed for serious infractions, surely there is a deeper problem which should be addressed.

There almost certainly will be deeper problems which will be addressed. But in the meantime violent behaviour needs punishing.

Applying a Saturday detention doesn't mean no other interventions are taking place. But other interventions take time, months and months of time to take effect. In the meantime something is needed to stop the violence.

Again I ask you - what would you suggest?

OP, all pretty standard. They might chase you for it if you don't hand it in, although as mentioned it is not legally binding.

I'd consider letting her walk - does she have a phone? They are so slow at getting out and at our school parking is a nightmare!

I know we wouldn't be sympathetic towards parents saying their kids couldn't complete detentions because of other activities (unless it really is a one off).

I am merely responding to previous posts which showed a clear satisfaction in poor behaviour being punished. Personally I think the tone should be more regretful, as the poor behaviour denotes a failure on some level. If there were more regret, more understanding regarding the OP's dilemma over feeling able to let her daughter walk home through an area where there has been numerous instances of violent crime and sympathy over the worry of not knowing where her daughter might be, then I might believe there has been more than lip service paid to pastoral intervention. What comes through most strongly, on this thread, to me, is teachers 'having each other's backs'.

Yes, the resistance is because you appear to be assuming that schools do not do pastoral work alongside sanctions, but they do.

Schools do a hell of a lot of pastoral work in the background - planning loads of input to promote positive behaviour and deal with barriers to learning which cause poor behaviour. There still needs to be clear sanctions whilst this happens...

SpinnakerInTheEther

What comes through most strongly, on this thread, to me, is teachers 'having each other's backs'.

This is your opinion. I also have my pupil's backs as well.
Detentions are rarely set with little regard for the pupils, I have several pupils that I have equipment set aside for because they are unable (for whatever reason) to bring in their own.

But whatever your thoughts, there has to be sanctions in place for various infractions.

there are also various levels of pastoral care running along side all of the teaching, learning etc.

Than you have, quite frankly, no idea. Pastoral support is very important in our schools and very important to me personally as a student. Students don't perform at their best academically without it.
I could have pressed charges. I didn't. The same is true of many incidents that led to Saturday detentions. If I took pleasure in punishments I would have called the police. Schools don't throw punishments around, we have people who are responsible for pastoral care and investigate the situation. In my case, the context was reporting his friend for sexual harassment. That was it. That incident was also dealt with appropriately with the contexts considered (in that case misguided showing off to friends). A lot of time is invested in students before it gets to a Saturday detention. I don't wish to give full details for obvious reasons but there we go. You think that by asking for support from SMT that means don't support students. Far from it. It meant a safe space to discuss how I felt in the aftermath, a box of tissues and agreement that I would not have to teach that student again.

Oh yes, teaching, that profession where someone threatens violence against you and you should be upset when they get a detention for it, instead of relieved that SLT have actually taken it seriously and dealt with it appropriately.

Some people really need to get a grip.

The satisfaction displayed over punishments, the relish in which posts pointed out that the most inconvenient punishments, to parents and families, were the most successful, has led me to believe pastoral work is not sincerely carried out. The attitude of satisfaction over punishment, and added to this the most inconvenient punishment to families, denotes a certain lack of empathy.

I reckon that judging the effectiveness of pastoral work in schools based on a few MN posts might not be entirely valid...