School/home contract...

[TaperJeanGirl]

Dd1 is starting secondary in September, I have just had the school/home contract through the post...and I don't agree with all of it! Some of it is common sense like making sure they are in school in correct uniform and on time, and similar, the part I don't agree with is the detentions, they want me to agree to them being able to keep her up to 15 mins after school without notifying me, this will cause problems on the 2 weekdays she does an outside school activity, and also cause me huge problems because I will be collecting her at 3.15 and then going on to nursery and school for my younger dcs..they also give out Saturday morning detentions..can't they even do this? Again, this would mean her ( and possibly 3 more of my children ) missing an out of school activity, that's paid for in advance, I suppose what I'm asking is did anybody else disagree with the schools contract? The after school detention is easily sorted if they could just text me or let her text me to tell me she will be 15 mins late and I could do the other pick ups first, but the Saturday morning detentions just won't be happening...can they withdraw her place if I don't agree?

In fact, based on your interpretation of the tone of the posts.

the relish in which posts pointed out that the most inconvenient punishments, to parents and families, were the most successful

you'd prefer that schools utilised ineffective sanctions?

I was considering adding more personal detail to this. But I'm not going to. It would be a waste and I'll still be told that I'm not putting enough effort into pastoral care.
I'll just say to be bloody honest Spin, I'd be a lot more delighted if it hadn't happened. But unfortunately it did, fully investigated by able pastoral team and dealt with with FULL PARENTAL SUPPORT. The person complaining about missing something in this instance was the student.

Secondary school will be a shock to the system for you I think. Please don't communicate to her the fact that you disagree with school policies or that you expect her to be late/disorganised/mucking about. Set high expectations and be positive about the whole experience and she will surprise you. Please remember that schools have hundreds of pupils to look after, teach and discipline and that their policies (detentions, mobile phone) have to be practical for the whole community. The school sounds very normal and sensible to me and teachers will be understanding of yr7 pupils' need to adjust. (I am a former Head of Yr 7).

No noble, I'd expect schools to be fair to families and consider the longer term impact of punishments, that affect whole families, seriously. If the whole family had planned a rare trip away to see relatives over the weekend, having to cancel because of a weekend detention, possibly over something relatively minor, all the family suffer because of one child's behaviour. Parents should unquestionably be informed if their child has an after school detention. Whole school agreements should be done in the spirit of cooperation, not be used as a big stick with which to threaten families with.

And my child is already at Secondary. Thankfully they are much better organised, value parent's feedback and keep parents much better informed than the OP's appear to.

If the whole family had planned a rare trip away to see relatives over the weekend, having to cancel because of a weekend detention, possibly over something relatively minor, all the family suffer because of one child's behaviour.

Yeah, but this hasn't happened has it? And in that instance a school would probably be reasonable and postpone the detention.

So you're arguing against something that no one has supported.

noble but posters have said that there should be no preferential treatment, that inconvenience to parents made the punishment more effective...

If the posts were more moderate in tone, there would be no argument to be had.

My comment was aimed at the OP, spinnaker.
You should be congratulated on achieving your aim of winding up as many people as possible on this thread.

Spin no, the problem is your determination to make out every teacher and school is awful.

OP, if you're still here, a typical Saturday morning detention in ds's school would escalate like this:

Child breaks rule, given detention, shown on parent portal but no other contact with parents;
Child continues to break rule, or does something worse, given isolation detention - parents called by head of year to explain, usually before child gets home;
Child CONTINUES to break rule, parents called into school, Saturday morning detention supervised by Head.

Certainly in our case, a Saturday morning detention would not be given unless there is very good cause.

Well, if that had been my aim, Chick, it would have taken remarkably little effort. However it has not been my aim, I just do not like the high handed attitude over school agreements that some educational professionals seem to have, as displayed on this thread. There has been numerous instances of children and their parents on this thread being openly criticised, en masse, when we are by no means one cohesive group. It has been openly said that parents have no say in school agreements, when in fact they are supposed to be created in consultation with parents. Someone has to offer an alternative perspective amongst teachers defending their position.

Someone has to offer an alternative perspective

Not if that alternative perspective is just bollocks.

noble lovely imagery you use there. Are you attempting to be reductive?

Spin it's a concise description of your attempts to make out that teachers gleefully hand out detentions, deliberately attempting to prevent innocent, vulnerable children from seeing their dying grandparents for the last time while SLT egg the teachers on from the sidelines instead of allowing the children to access proper psychological support.

That seemed to be the gist of your posts.

noble that's rather an exaggerated interpretation of my posts. I meant what I said, no more and no less. I hope you are more level headed at work.

It's on a par with your exaggerated interpretation of pretty much everything said on this thread, Spin. Annoying when that happens, isn't it?

Really, noble? Well the readers can judge for themselves. I'm happy with that.

Just came back to this after being out all day....wow loads of replies, thank you all for your thoughts, I have learned 2 things, 1, that secondary kids don't get out on time ( and as it takes my kid 40 mins to put on a pair of socks, I should have known this!)

2, that Saturday detention seems to be a rare thing, so I'm not going to stress over it, I of course will support the school in any punishments she might get, they would likely to be for lateness to lessons/ not concentrating/ daydreaming/ losing stuff ( big problem with contraction and attention, which is why her Tuesday/Thursday and sat activity is so important to us as it helps a lot, to answer somebody that asked why her being in detention would prevent the others from going, they all go together, same activity different grades, so we all leave together and I wouldn't be able to come out to collect her while dd3 is at the club as she's only 5 and I have to be on site, and also ds has some special needs and can't be left either, dd1 is also a high grade for her age and can't afford to miss any sessions as she has a grading coming up before the end of the year..anyway, this won't matter as my delicate snowflake ( if you knew her you would understand why this made me smirk) won't be getting any detentions at all. Ever

Spin

Schools have to have a set of rules in place and these include the sanctions that will be followed. These rules are generally bent/broken by the school for various reasons.

However, as a teacher, If I break or bend the rules (without whole school guidance) it makes life hard for everyone, teachers, TAs, SLT, parents and the children themselves.

But as a question for you, at what age do we stop giving people sanctions for doing wrong (whether they have issues or not)?

Boney this thread is not about whether sanctions should exist but rather how they are carried out (home communication with parents, prior notice) and whether sanctioning at the weekend is appropriate (is punitive to the whole family not just the child in question). Further to this the level of parental consultation over home school agreements is called into question (posters advising parents not to question or challenge a school's existing agreement).

I have not said anywhere on this thread that I do not agree with any form of sanctioning whatsoever. What I would say, is that they are only ever of any use as deterrent to to those that are able to control their behaviour but who do not fully appreciate the intrinsic incentive in behaving as they should or natural consequence of behaving inappropriately (so need an added negative incentive). Those who cannot fully control their behaviour are not in a position to chose to avoid a sanction, even if they wanted to.

^ I also think it pretty important to work on a child's understanding of natural consequences for innapropriate behaviour along with the intrinsic rewards for behaving well. This I feel is more important than overly obsessing over sanctions.

Spin, I think those truly unable to control their behaviour are few and far between. Some of our most difficult kids are the ones who need clear boundaries and consistent sanctions - they don't have that elsewhere.

I agree with others - why are you expecting detentions ?

because schools hand them out like confetti?

I got 3 in a strict grammar school in 7 years - all for not doing homework.

My son got about 4 in one year. Only one in year 8 though so moving in the right direction. I think Saturday detentions are for conduct falling short of requiring an exclusion, so only for very serious stuff.

I don't agree with schools being able to give them without telling parents, but 15 minutes is ok. Surely she'll be getting home by herself at secondary anyway? Especially if you live in a city where presumably there is public transport?

apple Self control is pretty complex though, in that is not a simplistic being able to or not being able to. Some people have unfortunate anxiety / stress initiated, inbuilt violent responses, which are very difficult for them to overcome and control without support. Albeit they could appear to have a level of control if their anxiety is lessened within the environment. Like everything dependent on context all the environmental factors affecting a person are difficult to disentangle.

This is why good home school communication with parents is vital.