DC's and private school: do you explain to them about school fees?

[wanderings]

I was asked by my parents which secondary school I wanted to go to, after a few visits to various schools. I happened to choose the one which was a private school, with an entrance exam. I didn't actually know that my parents were paying fees for it until I was in year 8. (Should I have known about this, aged 11?) And I didn't realise until much later what a small percentage it is of children who do go to private schools.

While in a way I understand my parents' decision not to let the issue of fees influence which school I liked best (they rarely explained about big money matters unless I asked), I'm not sure if ignorance was bliss, and I can't help wondering if I had known from the start that it was an expensive school, if I might have worked harder in my earlier years there. (I didn't really start working hard until year 10; there were lots of battles between me and parents about schoolwork!)

"Such is the stigma now attaching to these schools as they panda to the super rich"
What stigma?
Panda to the super rich? How?
Maybe I'm monumentally unobservant but I've never seen the "super rich" pandered to at DS2's school. It's also over subscribed so the so called stigma does not seem to be having an impact.
Granola it might suits you to believe that there is stigma attached to independent schools but in 11 years I've never seen it. It's inevitable that the majority of parents paying boarding schools fees are going to be wealthy but not all will super rich, by super rich I'm talking the likes of ST rich listers.

There is a stigma.

There are many people who are not happy with the state offering, cannot afford the private, and are frustrated and resentful about the situation. I live in a neighbourhood filled with these people. They went to private schools, they cannot reasonably afford to send their own children.

I am job seeking at the moment. My English husband's advice: if interviewers ask you about your family, or reasons for returning to work, do not mention that DD1 is in a private school. It could cost you the job offer.

happygardening I know a number of teachers at independent schools, grand ones like your DS's, and not so grand former grammars. They have all seen a marked and accelerating change: their pupils are coming from a smaller band of high income "super entitled" families who demand bespoke services for their DC. The schools' old principles of moderation, community, cooperation, inclusiveness, and equal respect for all regardless of wealth are rapidly disappearing. They are embarrassed and saddened by their heads' pandering to the super rich (and to Tatler, the Good Schools Guide etc). Yes, it's becoming a stigma for them and for many others.

Our older dc had an awful education and a sort of satisfactory one respectively. I think they were both failed as others are in the state system. I have no experience of private yet.

We would have sent them to a private school if we could have afforded it and there was one close enough to where we live.
If your schools are dire and you can afford to go private you'd be daft not to do it.

When I see the opportunities dd has compared to her brothers and many other children I do think it's important for her to know this.

Affordability now is one thing. Five years down the line is another. School fees inflation is unreal. It needn't be that way. The heads and governors choose to target the very richest who want such things as tiny classes, whose educational benefits are unproven but sound good. It's an upward spiral feswise and a downward spiral morally for these schools.

Obviously granola I can only speak with actual in depth personal experience about DS2's school, I have asked him and he's not aware of super rich parents or their offspring being pandered too. The "old principles of moderation community cooperation inclusiveness and equal respect for all regardless of wealth are very much alive and kicking.
As one teacher once said to me "the only snobbery here is academic", I've also had experience of a few other big name boarding schools over the years and yes there are a few ghastly parents who want their every whim pandered too (as there are at any school in both sectors) but these are generally in the minority.
I don't know if you have any actual current experience of boarding but in my very extensive and current experience boarding is very much about the "old principles" you mention which is why it's a life enhancing experience.

hildaflorence totally agree £200k salary (plus bonus/shares) is not uncommon in legal/financial jobs especially at senior levels is 40 somethings g people who will have school age children. Partners in top law firms and consultancies will take more than that.

happygardening It's great to know you believe your DS's school is providing that sort of experience. Unfortunately, I do have experience of schools which pretend to stick to their principles but which bend over backwards to give the super rich what they ask for.

I have no hesitation in putting partners in "top law firms" amongst the super rich, homebythesea. They can afford the fee rises. Fine for them. The ISC's stats confirm that it's the salaried professionals, not those with snouts in City troughs, who are being squeezed out very fast now by the private schools.

Happy, I don't think the problem is within the schools, but more with who is being left out.

However good the offering is within the ivory tower, it's a problem if there are dissatisfied masses with their faces pressed against the glass watching you eat cake, so to speak. It's particularly bad for children in private education who are not actually protected by mega wealth.

Exactly, SettlinginNicely, and if a parental survey says they'd like profiteroles as well as cake, they'll get them, up will go the fees and Tatler will say the profiteroles were just lovely.

As always, I agree with granolamuncher that the increasing polarisation of private education in England is morally, socially and educationally undesirable. Yes to well managed and efficient schools offering high quality developmental opportunities that state education can never hope to afford. No to a gilded mini world - a private members club for the offspring of the most fortunate.

I think I'm very glad to live in Scotland. We don't really have the "super rich" up here and every time I read threads like is I don't recognise these descriptions of private schools. I probably pay around £12k pa for DS including uniform, transport, trips etc. That's still within the means of an awful lot of Edinburgh professionals. DH is a mid level IT manager and well over half his colleagues send their children to private schools.

DD just finished up the entrance exam process and we're waiting to hear if she has a place. I was astounded by how many more applicants there were this year compared to three years ago. It's getting more competitive for places up here, not less thanks to the Curriculum for Mediocrity.

I knew at 11.
I came from a very politicised family and my parents did a bit of selling their souls to the devil to send me privately with an academic scholarship. We lived near to a failing secondary and I was already experiencing low level antagonism as being bright and interested was not cool. I understand and respect why they did it.

But whilst academically it was brilliant for me it was a real "cognitive dissonance" and the children Settling describes were there 20 years ago. I got the highest grades that were then possible. The bullying was less overt but left me in therapy over the decades that followed.

The privilege in terms of trips and music was something that has enriched my life but I'm not sure pays off the consequences psychologically - girls schools brew their own very particular nastiness.

Children should know and should know they are privileged compared with the country and vitally with the rest of the world.

"I dont think I could do as well if I have to pay close to £30k a year for her school each year"

Is this private day school? Fees round here are about £12k pa.

I am job seeking at the moment. My English husband's advice: if interviewers ask you about your family, or reasons for returning to work, do not mention that DD1 is in a private school. It could cost you the job offer.

I think you'd have to be exceptionally stupid to mention such a thing in an interview.

@Bunbaker: LEH or SpGS each term is 7k or above plus music, trips, uniforms, school bus...all easily added up to £27-30k and increasing. I am expecting in 3-4 yrs time when I have to send mine there it would be easily £30k in total

Granola why the need to use the term "snouts in city troughs" for people with certain jobs?

about the argument that private schools are OK if they're better than state ones (and lots of DC are excluded) but not if they're "a gilded mini world" for the super rich. So they're only OK if "middle class" people in "salaried professional" jobs can afford them?

Bunbaker, day fees for secondary here in the south east are often £25k+ before extras.

Far fewer DC would be excluded from private education if it were cheaper.

Granolamuncher we live In an area where very few schools are included in the Tatler guide which seems to be very much southern biased.The fees for my kids prep school are between 9-12 thous.There is absolute inclusiveness in the school and the pupils are generally lovely and there is no bullying and bad behaviour .In contrast to their state school.There are lots of knackered cars in the car park as well as big range rovers .

There's a boarding school down the road with excellent results that takes a high proportion of Asian/Russian students.But the school also bends over backwoods to take local day students to balance out the school.It also offers attractive scholarships and bursaries.

I do recognise the Schools that Granolamuncher are referring to,but these are very much southern based schools with a huge number of applicants and can charge whatever they like.Round our way the private schools have to try to be as affordable as possible otherwise they won't survive.

I think I would tell her but I dont think she cares or know what does it mean yet

Bobo your post does smack of 'it's ok for noses to be pressed against the glass as long as it isn't (our) mc kids' noses' !

"If the parental survey says they'd like profiteroles as well as cake they'll get them and up go the fees and Tatlers will say the profiteroles were lovely."
Over the years I've met parents from all walks of live including ST richer listers royalty and Rusiian billionaires, I've sat on cricket pitches chatting and stood in marquees drinking tea, I've listened to happy parents and disgruntled ones, not one has ever complained about the lack of profiteroles because they're already being served or their equivalent. Obviously they do sometimes moan about trivial things but I suspect that's human nature but few if any would remove their child because of it or choose a school because of it. The vast majority of parents when the chips are down are mainly concerned about results, they pay the money and in return they expect the school to teach their children in such a way they achieve results, be it entry into the right senior school or A levels and a place at the right university, everything else comes second.
"It's a problem if there are dissatisfied masses are with their faces pressed to the glass watching you eat cake."
Sitting I'm not saying it's unfair that's a sepreate argument I just have never experienced the pandering to the super rich that granola describes.
"It's particularly bad for those in private education who are not actually protected by mega wealth"
Again only my own personal experience but more valid than many on here who have no actual personal experience! According to someone I met last year who's in the know DS2's school is known to have particularly wealthy parents and I've been to some of their homes I've no problem believing that and we definitely don't fall into that category. Very rarely has it ever been a problem for my DS in fact he'll tell you the very few who find it is a problem are generally disliked by all. We found the same thing at prep in fact the mega mega wealthy were often the most friendly and dare I say it normal it was the next lot down who were pretty ghastly. Maybe boarding is different there's nothing like living side by side with someone 24/7 to realise that it's not money that makes you special. As I said above the values of tolerance, community, and let's not leave of caring for each other are very much alive and kicking in most of the boarding schools I've had lots to do with.

I think London will be similar to many other big cities in the world (almost everything is money driven-we come to London to work anyway if they dont pay us well then we will leave). While other areas/cities are similar to many smaller european cities where more local born people live and still keep traditions

granola "snouts in City troughs" is a bit harsh. The people in senior legal and financial positions (in and out of the City by the way) are just ordinary graduates who have found themselves in an extraordinary industry in terms of income, at around the right time. That together with the ridiculous property market in recent decades have conspired to create a (yes, small) group of very well of people who are not necessarily "of money" in terms of background. Our children will I have no doubt will never be so well off even if they follow the same career path because things are different now.