DC's and private school: do you explain to them about school fees?

[wanderings]

I was asked by my parents which secondary school I wanted to go to, after a few visits to various schools. I happened to choose the one which was a private school, with an entrance exam. I didn't actually know that my parents were paying fees for it until I was in year 8. (Should I have known about this, aged 11?) And I didn't realise until much later what a small percentage it is of children who do go to private schools.

While in a way I understand my parents' decision not to let the issue of fees influence which school I liked best (they rarely explained about big money matters unless I asked), I'm not sure if ignorance was bliss, and I can't help wondering if I had known from the start that it was an expensive school, if I might have worked harder in my earlier years there. (I didn't really start working hard until year 10; there were lots of battles between me and parents about schoolwork!)

(I know that i sound a bit 'well when I was young we lived in a shoebox' - especially because our particular brand of genteel poverty was old-fashioned even in the 1970s / early 1980s, and seems almost unimaginable now)

I think as an 11 year old you'd have to be very naive not to realise that you were going to a fee paying school. I can remember my parents discussing the options at secondary - private vs comprehensive - and being very aware of the key difference! I'm sure all my peers would have understood this too.

I think that probably by about year 3 mine realised that there school was different to the one most of the children in the village went to , partly because neighbours didn't have lots of sports kit etc , but actually where we live there is no one catchment school and even the state schools have ties and Blazers so I don't think uniform would have been a clue .

When they asked we always told them in an age appropriate way , we always stressed that their school was independent and therefore had a different curriculum which we felt was better for them as individuals not that it was just 'better' whatever better means. For us that's true , I didn't want my children taking lots of unnecessary tests and exams , I wanted them to have a more spaced out day with lots of long play times , I want the exam results to be the by product and not the purpose of their education

Obviously they have by secondary school sussed the factthat we pay but I have never made a big deal of it , we chose to pay not them But when choosing sixth form we did discuss it , as I felt at that stage the fact that we were paying was important for them to appreciate and understand that if they weren't going to take advantage of the extra things at an independent then given that our local school gets fabulous results that might be a better option.On chose to stay and one chose a local college , number three isn't at that stage yet.

Their school,does lots of things including trips with the local state school and they understand they have different styles of teaching , shorter days etc but I hope he doesn't think he is superior or act superior in any way because that is not the way we have brought him up.

I've not discussed it with my children, they know that they are at a private school but we've never engaged in any conversations or discussions about it and they certainly don't have a clue what it costs. All they know is that the government pays for some schools and parents pay for some schools and that they go to a school parents pay for as it suits our family. It's utterly normal for children to dip in and out of both sectors and for siblings to be in different sectors. Results are broadly the same, the backgrounds of the children are broadly the same so it's simply not an issue or something that needs discussing. We don't sacrifice anything to send them there and other than a brief explanation as above it doesn't even warrant mentioning

My DS thinks his uni fees are incredibly good value and that his Dear Father and I should be feeling flush and have spare funds for really nice holidays and perhaps a little sports care .

The DC have always known they are at private schools - as have all their friends - and they talk about it in the playground and about whose parents scrimp and whose are loaded and take the piss mostly out of those who are loaded.

My kids (at state schools) know that children in private schools have twice as much spent on their education as they do. They have seen the magnificent sports and learning facilities at a prominent local fee paying school as it runs a scheme to invite the poor kids in for a single day for an activity to show them what they're missing and to justify their charitable status. They know the score and think it's a bloody unfair, as do I.

I tell them they'll have to work extra hard to compete with rich children who may be thicker than they are but have more teaching time and who can learn free of low level classroom disruption so often make better progress.

I think all children should know about privilege and inequality, and the structures and practices which perpetuate inequality, like private schools. It's good to politicise them.

"t's utterly normal for children to dip in and out of both sectors and for siblings to be in different sectors"

No it's not.

Nationally only about 5% of children are at fee paying schools.

95% of the children in my dc's classes would be entirely unwelcome at any ms private school in the uk because they are neither well off nor particularly bright.

mibifingerz shame on your local independent school 😔 That sort of thing makes me cross. Fwiw though, there are lots who do try harder. My DH was a head of one and he encouraged the local school to use the swimming pool free of charge for all their lessons. They didn't even pay for the lifeguard. He knew that with school budgets, swimming lesson costs were often not covered. Nobody made a big deal about it, it didn't come across as charity, I'm not sure the state school parents even knew it was provided for free. It just happened without fuss.

minifingers I'm not sure what point you're trying to make in relation to this particular thread. Few I suspect would dispute the fact the ultimately it's unfair that a few can have so much.
I think most children know they are at a fee paying school but I suspect that many children especially those who've spent much of their education at very "prominent" fee paying schools have no real idea about what happens in the state sector, how large the gap is between what they have and what those in the state sector have and therefore how lucky they really are.
Secondly mimfingers the idea endlessly pushed on here that the independent sector is stuffed with children who "may be thicker" than their contempories in the state sector is inaccurate and frankly tedious..I know it brings satisfaction to those who don't send their children to fee paying schools to say this but ultimately there is a full range of abilities.

I think that's a lot to saddle a child with, isn't it?

Mine go privately, we don't discuss it with them and they are generally unaware of the heavy implications it carries for some people. They've gone privately since reception so not much opportunity for context.

If private school is elitist and unfair, then it's hardly their cross to bear because the decision is ours (obviously).

We are incredibly upfront with the DCs about fees and all the extra curricular activities (far bigger budget than school fees) we pay for. Why not? They can do the maths on their own anyway.

mini if your DC know they will have to work very hard to compete with all those 'thick' rich DC, how's that working out for ya?

Working as a great incentive is it?

Mini, in our area and in our acquaintance it is totally normal for children, even within the same family, to dip in and out of state and private. That's why FOR US, it's not such a big deal. Our state school offers less sport but similar extra curricular to the private school. Ski trip, tick, huge drama production in proper theatre, tick, proper uni prep including Oxbridge, tick, outstanding GCSE & a level results, tick. Children who live more than 400m away. Aaah, unless they are a sibling. No, therefore people go private.

Absolutely I get that this is an exception but the question was about whether the poster discusses fees with their children and hence the answer I gave.

DD's old (state) primary school is a feeder school and in the catchment area of only one (good) secondary school. The only other schools that children from this village go to are independent schools in city about 20 miles away. Everyone at the primary school knows that the city schools are fee paying, as most children go to the local secondary school. In DD's year 20 of the 21 children went to the state secondary and only one to a private one.

DD sat the exam for the girls high school and was offered a place. We applied for a bursary, but it was declined so DD went to the state secondary instead.

No, ds didn't know he was at a fee paying secondary school until yr 8 ish.

He did primary at a lovely small state school where his ten peers from his year group went to five different secondaries. We looked around two state schools and the school he's at and chose this one between us.

Why would he know it was private? Nothing to distinguish between uniforms - what else is an 11 year old going to go by?

But anyway, we did tell him in yr 8 when he kept asking why his best (girl) friend from primary couldn't move to his school as he thought she would really like it there.

We will never put pressure on him to perform because we are paying but we do now (in yr 10) have the odd conversation about how lucky he is to be able to attend the right (small, quiet, formal, caring) school for his needs (ASD).

Our DD knows, and knows how much. It was unavoidable. She went from a state primary to a private. About 18% of her yr6 went on to a private school. In our area, there is a choice amongst state secondaries as well (catholic, christian, sikh, comp, etc.) So, with all the different decisions being made, the children were discussing their situations amongst themselves quite a bit. We couldn't possibly hide the basic facts because her classmates were quick to point them out. So, when she asked questions we gave straight answers. I am not interested in "politicising" my children like mini. But I do think they need to know the truth of the situation.

Some children were rude to each other about where they were going and why. Sometimes it was jealousy, sometimes scorn. Kids are kids and they say egotistical, rude, dumb stuff. Especially 11 year olds, who are completely without any social nouse.

We looked at it as a chance for DD to think about how to be gracious, handle difficult people, and respond to digs with a bit of empathy, and also to consider how not to say something that will inadvertently hurt someone else's feelings.

It was all a good lesson. Now that she is in year 7 at an academic private school, I am amazed at some of her stories of the things the girls say to each other! Most have always been in the prep school bubble, and honestly, if we could have afforded it, we would have had her in it too. One unintended result of that though, is that they don't seem to have had the social "challenge" that she has had. In some ways they seem less mature. They say some braggy, bossy, self-centred, graceless stuff that has me amazed. They sound more like 8 or 9 year olds to me. And they are clever girls. The upside for DD is that she is very popular at her new school. I am not surprised.

The school is fantastic and we feel it is worth every hard earned penny. We are delighted with the teaching, and very impressed with standard of all the extracurricular trimmings. The school helps develop them in so many ways that we cannot. I would like the school to help bang home the message about charm and good manners, but I don't think that is fashionable anymore.

I don't recognise your characterisation of your daughter's classmates, SettlinginNicely. My boys are, if anything, far too clueless about their circumstances to comment on them, but they are at an extremely low-key non-flashy prep in West London.

Maybe my area is unusual, maybe my circle of friends is unusual but I just can't see how a secondary age child doesn't know that they go to a private school.

As a parent I'd think I was failing if my children weren't aware of the world around them by that age.

DD has always known she was at a fee paying school. There were many instances of people leaving because they could no longer afford it, and the kids knew this was the case. When she applied for secondary schools she also knew that our choice was limited by what we could afford, and that she was able to help out if she worked hard. She now "pays" 50% of her school fees, and she totally understands that. I think it has been an important lesson in real life.

Settling in, I recognise the type of behaviour you describe all too well, I have observed it as a parent helper at local out of school activities and heard about it from local friends who's children moved from our state primary to the local independent.

I've never been secretive about the fact that my dc's school was selective and that it cost money, but I've stopped short of telling them how much exactly we have paid (I'd rather not think about that myself).

I had to be rather direct when we took them out because our circumstances changed - i.e. nothing to do with anything the dc did or how bright they were, but all to do with keeping a roof over our heads and food on the table. I also expressly asked dd not to discuss fees before she left because I know for a fact that some parents in her class keep this information from their dc and find it inappropriate that dc are confronted with reality at the tender age of 9

My children don't go to private schools but have friends who do and I wouldn't dream of not discussing with them how much it costs if the subject comes up and it has on more than one occasion. They are curious children and I'm very open about financial matters so of course I would tell them.

As they grow up I want them to know the realities of life and how much things cost, they need to know that if they want to have those things they have to work hard enough at school to get the qualifications.

No wonder the bubble effect exists if parents aren't equipping their children for later life.

I think there are some parents who exist in the private school bubble and their parents before them. It is just how they live and they are certainly not scraping the fees together! These parents are mostly found at well known schools (although not exclusively) and really do not engage with the outside world, and neither do their children. They would not have any friends who used state schools. When my elder dd went to boarding school, she was the one only one from a state school. Yes, they do talk to the other pupils! Some of the children actually thought she was brave having been to one! They assumed they were full of knife wielding and dangerous children! Certainly not somewhere these cosstted children would care to go.

In the end, the majority will have to work with all types of people but even then, some will only work with people like them, at Tatler for example, and definitely will only be friends with people like them. They marry each other and produce children who are the next generation at the boarding schools. They certainly do not need to discuss fees with their children because it is the norm to pay. It is only people of slightly less entitlement who discuss money and feel their children should work for the priviliedge of a private education. Although we never discussed the actual fees, we did discuss with DD that she really wanted to go boarding and not to the local grammar school. The deposit was non returnable and so was the uniform!