DC's and private school: do you explain to them about school fees?

[wanderings]

I was asked by my parents which secondary school I wanted to go to, after a few visits to various schools. I happened to choose the one which was a private school, with an entrance exam. I didn't actually know that my parents were paying fees for it until I was in year 8. (Should I have known about this, aged 11?) And I didn't realise until much later what a small percentage it is of children who do go to private schools.

While in a way I understand my parents' decision not to let the issue of fees influence which school I liked best (they rarely explained about big money matters unless I asked), I'm not sure if ignorance was bliss, and I can't help wondering if I had known from the start that it was an expensive school, if I might have worked harder in my earlier years there. (I didn't really start working hard until year 10; there were lots of battles between me and parents about schoolwork!)

If you go to a state primary and then move to private, you won't be able to hide the financial facts from your child. Discussion on the playground will quickly inform them. You also won't be able to hide from your child that not everyone approves of private education. Again, playground discussion will inform them.

"but I just can't see how a secondary age child doesn't know that they go to a private school."

Neither can I. Don't the kids talk to each other?

Strangely enough I think they have more to talk about than how much the the school fees are . Much more likely to be talking about sport , their teachers, pets, Xbox games, Star Wars etc I don't encourage mine to talk about money either particularly as more than a third of his school receive financial support to be there , so I know one close friend 's parents pay nothing for example and it's possible they could all be paying differing amounts . It's just not something Iferlthry should be gossiping about

"Strangely enough I think they have more to talk about than how much the the school fees are "

I would expect every child in a private school to know that it was a fee-paying school, but not exactly how much their parents were paying IYSWIM?

So i would expect a level of awareness and knowledge of the world - ie that some schools are free at the point of use, and others are paid for by parents - from, frankly, every child from a very young age [we live close to a private school with very grand buildings, so it was something that DS and DD knew from when we moved here, when they were 4 and 6]. But the actual £p, not.

I can't imagine why parents would hide it the fact that they're paying. What would be the point?
On the other hand it's shouldn't be a stick to beat them with as long as they've ultimately not actively made the choice between state and independent. But as as I said earlier I think at 6th form children need to be aware that money is being spent and that there are expectations whether they be academic or just participating in what the school has to offer.

"I would expect every child in a private school to know that it was a fee-paying school, but not exactly how much their parents were paying IYSWIM?"

I agree. Everyone knows that there aren't any private schools in our LEA, and the ones that some of the kids go to in the city 20 miles away are private, which is why I struggle to understand why children aren't aware.

Yep SettlinginNicely has it right .State school pupils from a very young age are very aware of the cost of private schools.My children received lots of comments in the Playground about going to a 'posh' school.Consequently even my extremely reluctant-to-move 9 year old asked me how much we had to pay in his new school.
My year 7 is extremely aware of her fee discounts due to a scholarship and compares the discounts with her friends - a mixture of state and ex prep- school pupils.All my children are aware that I expect them to work hard as its a real privilege being sent to a private school.
I honestly think parents are extremely remiss in not informing their children of the real cost of their education.The children must be seriously immature and a little thick not to be aware.But them maybe I'm not rich enough to move in those rarified circles.

"Seriously immature and a little thick?"

How very offensive.

Try: very clever but has autism in the case of my ds.

And his primary school friends had better things to talk about, I assume.

TBH you can't win whichever way you go.

If you impress upon your DC that they're lucky to receive the education they do, someone will tell you that you're giving them a superiority complex or that you're wasting your money ( so DC are not actually lucky) or that you're putting them under too much pressure.

If you don't impress upon your DC that they are lucky, you're keeping them in a bubble yadda yadda.

Too right, SheGot.

I figure we all need to deal with this issue in a way we feel is sensible and leave others to their own ways.

For us that has meant informing them of the costs of their education and the differences that money buys.

They are also expected to give if their best in school. Though I would expect this if school were free. Not that state school is free of course. It is something we pay for as a society and a resource many many DC around the world can only dream of. Something all DC in the UK would do well to remember.

The other reason we left it as long as possible to tell ds is that he is massively anxious about money full stop. Asks for the cheapest thing on a restaurant menu, won't let us spend much on him at Christmas or birthday. This is an autism, thing, btw, not caused by us having money issues or talking about money that much in front of him, or being 'tight' with him or other people.

So, I'll deal with my child how I see fit and not be judged for it by anyone.

Why wouldn't DCs at a private school know what the fees are? Mostly they can be found in a couple of clicks on the school website! It's public information.

We can't afford private school and not sure that we've have used it even if we could, however DSs are and have been well aware that some people pay for private schooling for quite a long time - certainly since primary and we don't live in an area where a lot of children are private. DS2s view was why would you pay for something you can get for free? I did explain that non-private school is free at the point of use but is paid for through taxes so not "free" as such and that there are potential advantages to going to private school (old boy network, smaller classes etc.) he is still opposed though so makes no odds to us. I definitely think kids nowadays are aware and I would be explaining how it works regardless but not as a stick to beat them with as has already been said.

Bobo I don't think my 9 year old was quite that interested. 'Loads' is about her level of monetary worth calculation

I can certainly understand why lots of kids wouldn't be aware but I would hope that parents would want them at some point to realise how different their situation might be from most people in the country. And I don't mean that "some schools are paid by parents, some by the government" - that is just disingenuous given that it's a very small minority whose schools are paid for by parents. It might be uncomfortable but isn't it similar to reminding kids how lucky they are to get lots of presents or whatever - I think they need to know that many many people have less and to have a lot may not be the norm or something that is their right.

"Why pay when you can get something for free?"
It would appear myotherusername that children in the independent sector awe not alone in having very limited comprehension of the gap that can exist between those who pay and those who don't.

As I say most are aware by year 3 that we pay but frankly it's not high on their agenda, I wouldn't want them to dwell on the differences or feel pressured and quite frankly why would a four year old need to know anything about whether you pay for school.

There are plenty of people around here who could comfortably pay school fees but choose the state school and plenty who struggle who choose the independent . Those choices or not the concern of myself or my children and I wouldn't expect them to be talking about it .

I definitely think they should know. My kids will be going to state schools unless I have a huge change of heart and/or massive income boost in the next 10 years or so. I would never dream of teaching them that some children are 'thick' or private school kids are all snobs and I would like to think other parents would do the same and vice versa. Some adults still live in a bubble and have no idea how other people live so obviously kids will get caught up in that. Parents, family and friends play a part as well as school.

Strangely enough I think they have more to talk about than how much the the school fees are.

Actually, Hilda DC are interested in the world. How much things costs and how you make money are something they want to know and do discuss. Among other things, of course.

Personally, I don't mind them having the facts per se. I do, however, mind them being indiscrete, which they will be. So when they come home asking how much our house is worth, I give them a low ball estimate. When they come home asking "how much daddy makes" I refuse to say anything and when asked why, I am straight with them: "because you will run and tell your friends and you shouldn't!" (It's the 8 yr old doing most of the querying at the moment. So clearly, family finances are a hot topic in year 4 presently.)

I realise they are asking because other DC are talking, and they want to be bigshots with grownup information too. Nothing wrong with learning a bit about how the world works, I just don't want the whole neighbourhood knowing our household accounts!

Private schools are rapidly becoming a luxury for a super rich elite. ISC stats disclose that in the last 5 years the percentage of its member schools' families with incomes over £200k has risen from 10% to 16%. The percentage with incomes below £50k has remained static at 16%, despite all the guff about bursaries. It's the middle (people on salaries and with budgets) that is being well and truly squeezed out very fast.

Schools are targetting the super rich and these days those people often flaunt their wealth and have their DC do the same. Dr Arnold and Dr Busby would weep but that is where we are now.

We have told dd exactly how much the fees are to her school and that it costs thousands more than we earn in the year.
It does them no harm to know how privileged they are even if they have passed exams for ss elite schools.
My dd knows the tax payer is paying her fees and that most workers pay tax and they may hate their jobs.
This might be because we are working class though as we didn't know any privately educated people until dd started this September.

settlingin I'm with you in the indiscretion. We have never told our DC's the nitty gritty of the finances fir exactly that reason. However they can work enough out to know we are very well off compared to most (house, cars, holidays as well as school). They just don't need to know the detail. We also haven't to,d them there is a grand parental trust fund coming their way and will avoid that as long as humanly possible because it may be a disincentive for them To make their own way.

My DC are very interested in the world , they are all fairly political animals( in the last election we had one labour voter , one lib dem and one green!) they all do voluntary work both at school and away from school and we talk constantly about what it means to be a member of society , about rights v responsibilities etc .

BUT they are not interested in the minutiae of other people's finances and their decisions about their children's educations , they certainly were not remotely interested in school fees at reception age when they started but as they have matured we have given them information we have not hidden it but I seriously cannot imagine any of them discussing the subject with their peers .

I would encourage them to judge people on their actions and character and
not on whether they went to an independent school or not and not on their family income and I would be horrified if they were discussing fees in the playground at primary level.Not because I want them protected from the realities of life but just because it's inappropriate, many people are paid for by grandparents , or have bursaries etc or yes some people have lots of money to splash about but that is not a subject for public discussion nor a relevant factor in whether you spend time with a a person.

Dr Arnold has a very healthy bursary scheme at Rugby!