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Original poster

Should Alevel teachers have a degree in the subject?

116 replies

MitziKinsky · 07/10/2015 20:04

I just presumed they would.

DS is in Y12, and assures me one of his physics teachers knows what they're doing. The other doesn't seem to have a clue, apparently, as he's usually a maths teacher. DS says he has a degree in Philosophy and Maths. (I'm presuming that's two different degrees Hmm)

Shouldn't A'level teachers have a degree in the subject or I'm I totally out of touch?

OP posts:
BetweenTwoLungs · 07/10/2015 20:09

Ideally, but there's a national shortage of teachers, especially in those sorts of subjects. I suspect that it's a case of needs must. Hardly a great situation though.

Lurkedforever1 · 07/10/2015 20:13

I thought they were supposed to as well. Maths and physics do still have a lot of crossover though at a-level so if the maths teacher is only really doing those aspects then it wouldn't concern me on its own, although I'd still be on the alert for any other corner cutting.

PurpleDaisies · 07/10/2015 20:21

They are desperately short of physics teachers. I ideally wouldn't want a mathematician teaching A level physics-the mechanics elements will be fine but there are loads of hard concept topics that wouldn't appear on a maths degree. If they're only teaching mechanics that's fine-it depends how they've split the topics between the teachers.

Philosophy and maths is a joint honours degree so not a full degree's worth of either maths or philosophy but it sounds really interesting!

BrianButterfield · 07/10/2015 20:22

I teach A-level Media (and have for 12 years) with a degree in English, and DH teaches Engineering with a Physics degree. It's very common. (And I know someone teaching A-levels with no teaching qualification at all so it could be worse!)

PurpleDaisies · 07/10/2015 20:23

The A level syllabus has just changed so actually there are a fair few of us just figuring out what we're going and which topics go in which module now..

Original poster
MitziKinsky · 07/10/2015 20:25

Ah, good point, Lurkedforever1 I hadn't considered the crossover aspect.

The fact that DS is laughing about the teachers incompetance is slightly worrying.

My advice was to "Read the books...it's all in there." Hmm Science/maths are so far out of my comfort zone....what other corner cutting might there be?

Classes are small, but I'm dubious about the amount of teaching time allocated to each subject. I went to a small independent school for 6th form, so not sure if I should apply my expectations to a comprehensive. (DS has been there since Y7, and I was so thrilled with the school for 5 years, I didn't actually do much research into 6th form; I was just desperate for him to not change schools)

OP posts:
Haggisfish · 07/10/2015 20:28

Ideally yes, but as others have said, there is a huge shortage of physics teachers in particular. We have exact same situation and our one physics specialist has just handed in their notice as presdure of teaching is too much. Sigh.

PurpleDaisies · 07/10/2015 20:33

Part of it depends on how willing the teacher is to get their subject knowledge up to scratch-you can teach yourself all sorts of stuff if you're motivated and as long as you're a few steps ahead of the kids it doesn't necessarily matter if you've got a top level degree. If you've got what's on the syllabus plus a bit more and know how to actually teach it you'll generally be ok. The fact that this particular teacher is already looking incompetent is a bit worrying...

Scarydinosaurs · 07/10/2015 20:40

Some of the best teachers I've known have taught outside their degree subject. Lots of crossover, lots of new subjects that didn't really exist before.

If he's incapable of delivering the course content, that's a different matter.

TalkinPeece · 07/10/2015 21:08

A Degree in a subject proves that you can learn, not that you can teach.

My degree is utterly unrelated to my career.

TalkinPeece · 07/10/2015 21:10

PS DH enthuses school groups about lots of things : one of his strongest skills in an area where he does not even have a GCE, but he's read by choice for 20 years

GrizzlebertGrumbledink · 07/10/2015 21:14

The best teacher I have ever had was a maths teacher with a history degree. We all thought he was joking when he told us (when I asked why he simply said he briefly forgot how great maths is). He was so good at explaining things and made the lessons really enjoyable considering I was a grumpy teenager I don't think the degree subject is necessarily the key, perhaps enthusiasm for their subject?

PotteringAlong · 07/10/2015 21:17

I teach a level sociology without any qualifications in sociology at all.

GinandJag · 07/10/2015 21:18

I am an A-level Physics teacher with a degree in Chemical Engineering. I think I can keep ahead of the students.

PurpleDaisies · 07/10/2015 21:19

There are plenty of crap physics teachers with degrees round here.

As long as the teacher understands the concepts well enough to explain them, plus far enough beyond to deal with the really bright students who might be going on to study at degree level I don't think there's a big problem. As a physics teacher I know there are lots of things a random maths teacher who's just been coopted in at the last minute is very likely to struggle with!

Rainuntilseptember · 07/10/2015 21:29

I would be interested in knowing the actual form "not knowing what he's doing" takes. Did the teacher hesitate? Get something mixed up? Not be sure about the syllabus? Tell them gravity works in reverse? Children can sometimes misinterpret what is said to them. I've had a class think I didn't know something because I gave a different explanation to their last teacher - never mind that I was right!

GinandJag · 07/10/2015 21:31

I think the teacher not knowing what he is doing perception comes about when one student calls out a question, swiftly followed by another student calling out a completely different question. The teacher answers the first student, but the second student takes this as the answer to their question.

yeOldeTrout · 07/10/2015 21:32

It doesn't seem like a new problem to me. The chemistry teacher at my high school (30+ yrs ago) taught physics one year. Felt uncomfortable so refused to do it again & thus my school could not offer physics (argh).

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/10/2015 21:36

Tricky. One of the best teachers my son ever had taught English but his degree was in French. Meanwhile, as far as I know all my teachers had degrees in their subjects (very academic independent school in the 70s) but they weren't all good teachers. However, although being a good teacher is obviously important, so is subject knowledge. I'd want my children to be taught by a specialist for GCSE, never mind A level.

A young woman of my acquaintance is teaching Maths in a comprehensive school. Her degree is in English. She has Maths A level. I don't think that's ideal at all.

TalkinPeece · 07/10/2015 21:38

When I was at school, so few women had degrees it was not really an issue.

I had two A Level physics teachers
one was lovely and inspirational
the other is openly slagged off by the famous girl from my year deservedly so
the latter had the physics degree

TalkinPeece · 07/10/2015 21:41

Gasp0de
Why do you want people to have a degree in a subject when
(a) it could be 40 years old
(b) degrees are proof of ability to learn, not teach

mudandmayhem01 · 07/10/2015 21:47

My friend is an an English teacher, she has a French degree. I also have an English degree ( i' m not a teacher) her knowledge of how language works and grammar is far in advance of anything I learnt on my English literature degree.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/10/2015 22:00

Because having a degree in a subject is a good indication of having a longstanding interest in it and a depth of knowledge, and because few subjects change out of all recognition in 20/30 years. I have a Classics degree from over 30 years ago. My daughter graduated in Classics this summer. There's a substantial overlap between what she studied and what I studied. The same wouldn't apply to all subjects, of course, but it would to most of them.

TalkinPeece · 07/10/2015 22:06

Gaspode
Because having a degree in a subject is a good indication of having a longstanding interest in it
Bilge : I did my degree because I enjoyed the subject but never planned to carry it on, ever
and a depth of knowledge, and because few subjects change out of all recognition in 20/30 years.
You're not a scientist are you ?
The paradigm shift was happening during my A level. All books published before it are now historical document.
Look at Biology syllabus before DNA sequencing and since
or epigenetics

History : A level syllabus includes what we used to call "news"
Computing : did not exist when we were at school
ES : Ditto

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/10/2015 22:18

Oh come on, Talkin, the history syllabus does indeed cover recent events, but there's still thousands of years of recorded history before that! And if you'd read what I said I acknowledged that there's a lot of subject content change in some subjects, just not all of them.

I still maintain that having a teacher who is just a chapter or two ahead of the class in the textbook is a poor substitute for having a teacher who loves the subject and knows it inside out - given, of course (as I said before) that the teacher is actually good at teaching.

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