Should Alevel teachers have a degree in the subject?

[MitziKinsky]

I just presumed they would.

DS is in Y12, and assures me one of his physics teachers knows what they're doing. The other doesn't seem to have a clue, apparently, as he's usually a maths teacher. DS says he has a degree in Philosophy and Maths. (I'm presuming that's two different degrees )

Shouldn't A'level teachers have a degree in the subject or I'm I totally out of touch?

[PurpleDaisies]

When you look at the subjects it specifies that a certain number of credits of the degree must be in the subject, so it appears would be possible with soneone with a degree in a moderately close subject to get on a Pgce course that wasn't what their degree was actually in. I'd be amazed if engineering graduates weren't able to get on a physics Pgce.

[prettybird]

Here's a link (difficult to search as am on phone).

I know there is a shortage of Physics teachers - there are only 3 at ds' school and one of them is retiring soon of c.1200. I suspect the biology and chemistry teachers have to take a higher load of the "general" science teaching in S1 and S2 so that there is enough time tabling for the S3-S6 Physics classes (National 5/Higher/Advanced Higher). There are two Nat 5 Physics classes in ds' year.

[TalkinPeece]

pretty
In Scotland you not only have to have a degree in the subject(s) you teach, you also have to have done your PGCE in the subject(s).
Do you have a link for that?

How do poor schools get physics teachers ?

Do all the resistant materials teachers have degrees in it?

Do all the drama teachers have degrees?

[prettybird]

In Scotland you not only have to have a degree in the subject(s) you teach, you also have to have done your PGCE in the subject(s).

[dogsandkids]

As someone actively involved in recruiting teachers, you have to be creative. Some schools get no or one applicant for a post. You are better having a creative teacher with the wrong degree than no one. That is the sad reality now facing many schools.

[Iggi999]

Top of scale in Scotland is 34000. You can take on as many extra responsibilities as you like, you won't get a penny over unless you have an actual job as hod (under different names).

[ravenAK]

Entirely different culture.

I have a 2 year contract & it's assumed that after that I'll either take over as HOD, renew contract in current role, move on to another overseas post where they'd be happy to have me (assumption is UK expat teachers are in demand so I might breeze off somewhere else I fancy experiencing), or I'll be so shite they'd sack me - & fair enough.

Meanwhile I get to crack on with the job & am trusted to do it well. Of course there are probationary lesson obs, etc, but not by any means the UK culture that no teacher can be trusted to deliver without some numpty with a clipboard watching them teach.

Kids are the same as anywhere, as are courses I'm teaching.

[futureme]

What are the differences that you see now you're out? Is it the micromanagement? Attitude to teachers? I see a lot of differences with friends in Australia but having never taught there only from the outside!

[ravenAK]

About 38k at top of upper pay spine, which entails taking on extra...stuff.

More for management responsibility, but not much more.

I've moved from top of UPS to a (really, not onerous) management role overseas. Similar salary but tax free means it's actually a 10k rise, plus free family accommodation & discounted school fees.

I'd be daft to return to the UK to teach.

& I'm cheerfully teaching a subject to IB in which I have no degree.

It comes down to - yes, teachers should have a subject relevant degree. Absolutely. But how do you get the people with that degree to set foot in a classroom, much less stay there rather than trousering the golden hello & buggering off asap?

I am unsure whether it's do-able. I will say that the current UK government's education policies are entirely inimical to retaining well qualified staff.

[futureme]

I think the top of the main teaching spine is about 32. Lots of jobs advertise on this scale. There are some threshold levels bit the main spine as a big standard teacher is 1-6 and was 32ish when I last looked.

ponders radiography.

[noblegiraffe]

Yep, top of the upper pay scale is 37k, and to get that you have to be going above and beyond a bog standard classroom teacher. So mentoring new staff/PGCE students, leading initiatives, doing whole school stuff. After that the only opportunity for more pay is a TLR, an additional payment for extra responsibility, like KS4 coordinator for maths or head of year.

[moonbells]

*bog

[moonbells]

I think a good chunk of the lack of teachers is money. I read a few years ago that at that time the maximum you could earn as a big standard teacher was 37k. Please correct me if I am wrongly informed. Even in the NHS that is achievable on a band 7. We have mid 20s age radiographers on more than that!

[amarmai]

Since my degree is major in History and minor in English I usually got A level history and O level English to teach. BUT if there was a gap to be filled then whoever could have this put into their timetable got e.g.music? gym! math, science, cooking and sewing!etc I tried my best and surprised myself! Teaching is a great job!

[TalkinPeece]

No wonder there's such a problem with retention of experienced teachers in the state system.
Part of the problem is Academies - Heads are fully in charge of the budget.

The more they spend on teachers, the less they have for pet projects
so experienced staff are edged out and replaced with NQTs on short term contracts

and as there is no proper oversight of academies, kids will suffer

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Because they do not let those kids in - leaving the state schools to deal with them ....

Well, yes, obviously. What bothers me is that teachers and pupils in mainstream state schools with behaviour problems are all having a grim time. Many independent school teachers get paid more for having an easier time. No wonder there's such a problem with retention of experienced teachers in the state system.

(I know, btw, that not all independent schoolteachers are on a higher salary scale than state school teachers, but I know my son's school staff were.)

[TalkinPeece]

Gasp0de
They are paid a bit more than in state schools
What ever makes you think that
and the few behavioural problems were manageable.
Because they do not let those kids in - leaving the state schools to deal with them ....

futureme
They probably wouldn't have had the constant micromanaging and distrust thats part of the state sector.
but they will have the massive personal pressure for grades knowing that they are out of a job if they do not hit target
many private schools are utterly brutal on that side of things

[sassytheFIRST]

I wonder what the OP would make of me - teaching A level English lit and also Langlit at A level even though I "only" have a degree in American Studies. Even though I'm consistently acknowledged by my colleagues and students to be one of the best A level teachers in our large and talented dept.

[futureme]

They probably wouldn't have had the constant micromanaging and distrust thats part of the state sector.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

Lots of our teachers were married women who had come back to teaching after a few years off when their children were small. It was then (far less so now) a very family friendly job. My mum was a primary school teacher and did a bit of preparation in the evenings, none at the weekends that I can recall and very little school work in the holidays. It wasn't expected.

It's incredibly depressing that as a country we put so little priority on education that we don't pay enough to encourage good science and maths graduates to go into teaching. It can't just be money, though. My son went to an independent school from year 7. Every single person there teaching maths and science had a relevant degree, often more than one. They are paid a bit more than in state schools, but nothing like as much as they would get in industry or the city. They worked hard but I strongly suspect they had an easier life in some respects than many state school teachers. They could count on parental support (mostly) and the few behavioural problems were manageable.

[TalkinPeece]

Also at my schools a fair few of the women teachers were of an age where their fiances had died in WW2

[cressetmama]

Gasp0de makes an important point. Back then (when I was at school too) the women's movement was just getting into its stride and as a result, the 1970s generation of teenage girls were among the first to challenge the conventional wisdom that if you were able enough to go to university (and only 5-8% of people did) you would probably become a teacher afterwards. Education is still the single largest employer of graduates IIRC but the doors to other professions have opened much wider. Most of the top name Oxbridge colleges were still closed to women as late as 1974!

[MrsUltracrepidarian]

If having a degree in a subject was a requirement state schools have to cease to offer Physics.

[TalkinPeece]

I still do not understand why something I did 30 years ago defines who I am today.

DH is a qualified teacher (PGCE) the fact that he has a degree in one area does not reflect that he has avidly studied (and lectured on) two other subjects for 18 years.

[futureme]

Pandylion - Both at the grammar school and the 6th form college I taught at most of the teachers had good degrees from good universities. A lot of oxbridge/durham/london too.

I don't claim to be the best teacher there is though. I am amazing at studying and have several very good degrees. I forget very quickly though and find teaching quite stressful as I never meet the high/perfectionist expectations I put on myself.