Should Alevel teachers have a degree in the subject?

[MitziKinsky]

I just presumed they would.

DS is in Y12, and assures me one of his physics teachers knows what they're doing. The other doesn't seem to have a clue, apparently, as he's usually a maths teacher. DS says he has a degree in Philosophy and Maths. (I'm presuming that's two different degrees )

Shouldn't A'level teachers have a degree in the subject or I'm I totally out of touch?

[charis3]

I couldn't teach art or music,

physics is so easy I find it hard to understand why anyone would have a problem with any of it.

[noblegiraffe]

I have only ever met one maths teacher with a maths degree, in 20+ years teaching.

Hello!

It's certainly an advantage to be good at maths to teach maths. When teaching A-level, you're stuffed if you can't actually do the questions yourself, or take ages over them. The whole 'you're a better teacher if you've struggled yourself' thing is nonsense with maths. I might not struggle with solving equations myself, but that doesn't mean I can't look at a student's work and see where they're struggling. Some of it comes from experience, and some of it comes from being clever. Finding work they're struggling with easy doesn't mean I can't empathise, because I've had to work at other stuff, so I know how it goes with something seeming impenetrable and trying over and over and it suddenly clicking. Ok, mine was at degree level, but that doesn't matter, it's the same process.

[charis3]

it was you was it giraffe! hre is probably only one in the whole country!

[noblegiraffe]

I've just realised that I've worked with most of my department for 10 years and I haven't a clue what their degrees are in. Something mathsy, I assume, because they're all proper maths teachers (my school is very lucky!). I think you can do a maths PGCE if a reasonable proportion of your degree was maths, so engineering and so on would be ok.

[Pandylion]

If you found a subject very hard to learn then you are going to need to gird your loins trying to teach it to gifted students surely? Especially in something like maths. You can't fudge your way around in maths, or waffle away plausibly trying to dance around the fact you don't know your stuff.

If you really struggled with a subject then I would question your ability to teach it effectively, even to students who really struggle themselves. They need teachers who don't struggle otherwise it's like the blind leading the blind.

If you know your subject thoroughly and confidently then you are better equipped to see where the gaps in a pupil's knowledge are, and where the mistakes are.

[BoboChic]

Deep subject knowledge is essential to being a good teacher.

[Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g]

My view of this is totally skewed by the fact that my degree is in Classics and I did Latin and Greek at school. The idea of a bright, keen, aspiring classicist being taught Latin or Greek by somebody who was a couple of chapters ahead in the book gives me an attack of the vapours. I was taught by Classics graduates who were steeped in the subject and really understood it inside out. That was a large part of why I went on to do a Classics degree myself.

[Pandylion]

You need strong subject knowledge + ability to effectively convey that knowledge.

Anything less is short changing pupils.

[Finallyonboard]

Some subjects cross IMO. For example, as aa History teacher I'd feel more than comfortable teaching Politics/ classics as both subjects were part of my university level qualifications.

[BoboChic]

I have had experience of our DC being taught by the (occasional) teacher who didn't have quite the right degree for the subject eg an engineering graduate who had converted to being a physics teacher. It was always a bit rubbish.

[Pandylion]

I would think that if an Engineering graduate had got an A in A Level Maths then they'd be equipped to teach A Level Maths competently?

What you don't want is a Geography teacher with a low A Level grade in maths teaching maths at A Level, which is happening at a school I know right now.

[charis3]

You are not even going to know if a teacher has a degree in the subject they are teaching, and as to "short changing the pupil" I consider it to be more short changing the teacher! who has to learn a new subject, thoroughly, in order to teach it, and needs to know it well.

Incidentally, when I left teaching and started job hunting, I found I jobs I could not apply for, because I didn't have the right qualifications, EVEN THOUGH as a teacher I was considered qualified to TEACH those qualifications!

[BoboChic]

Or an Environmental Science graduate teaching Literature and History (a disaster)

[noblegiraffe]

As a maths teacher I feel deeply uncomfortable teaching any subject that requires facilitating class discussion, extended writing, emotions, different points of view sort of thing. I had to teach PSHE as a tutor and I was shit at it. Totally different skill set. That's why I'm dubious about teachers of other subjects reckoning they can have a go at teaching maths. We have to impart understanding and applications of methods, not opinions or a body of knowledge. Scientists maybe have the best shot.

[BoboChic]

Well, exactly, charis. The world beyond teaching is quite exacting about subject knowledge, as this thread demonstrates.

[ravenAK]

I'm making a fair fist of teaching English Literature IB for the first time, despite having an unrelated degree.

Obviously 15 years of teaching English up to GCSE has equipped me with the skills to bodge away & bullshit my way through most subjects .

Physics would be utterly beyond me ; I struggled to get a B at O Level. Anyone taught Physics A Level by me would be seriously shortchanged.

However. Short of marching Physics grads into the classroom at gunpoint, what do you propose? Not enough of them fancy teaching in schools.

Actually, my main concern about your maths chap teaching Physics would be that decent maths teachers tend to be chained up in the Maths Department, & under heavy guard lest they escape.

[PurpleDaisies]

There is a massive cross over between engineering and physics. I've worked with many fantastic physics teachers with degrees in engineering. It is entirely possible bobo that the teacher in question wouldn't have been any good even if they were teaching engineering.

I think the ideal situation is someone who is a talented teacher teaching a subject they have a degree in (or very close to their subject). There are definitely great teachers who have worked hard to get their subject knowledge up to a high enough standard who are better than some teachers with degrees in the right subject who can't teach it.

[JeffsanArsehole]

My dh teaches maths/English/geography/RS/philosophy - all at A level. He actually got the best results in the country for all of those subjects in different years.

His degree is in Philosophy.

[BoboChic]

noblegiraffe - IMVHO there are a lot of similarities between good teaching of maths and good teaching of language and literature. Numerical reasoning and verbal reasoning are really very similar at heart.

[noblegiraffe]

He actually got the best results in the country

Do you mean when he sat the exam, or the kids he taught?

How do you know if you get the best results in the country? (Not something I've ever had cause to find out, clearly).

[JeffsanArsehole]

The kids he taught. Different years, different kids. There's a table. His school told him.

No idea about where the table comes from, sorry. he's asleep or I'd ask him.

[noblegiraffe]

bobo maths is about constructing arguments, sure (it's much like philosophy in that way) but teaching simplifying fractions is nothing like teaching kids to compare Curley's wife and a puppy.

[BoboChic]

I always find algebra very useful when analysing texts (not joking)!

[PurpleDaisies]

I always find algebra very useful when analysing texts (not joking)!

How does that work?

[noblegiraffe]

That doesn't mean that teaching algebra is like teaching text analysis!