Tearing my hair out over State boarding

[Teddingtonmum1]

As I'm a single mum with a demanding job , I have decided to look into state boarding preferably weekly if I can get my ds a place . Christs hospital is my number 1 choice due to the bursary and it's a great school ( my brother is an old blue so slightly biased ) am also looking at RAAs in Reigate and Gordon's in Woking got open days at both saturday and next thursday out of the 2 would prefer Gordon's as a fall back if we cant get into CH , but have been advised that I can claim tax credits towards the 'childcare ' bill .

Have quizzed Gordon's as to chances of getting in I live in teddington so the right side of London but they said it obviously depends on siblings etc .( no really fair if you only have one can see why there's sibling priority in primary but not at secondary as kids get themselves to school but those are the rules ) am a little hopeful to read someone got in last year from east London ? any thoughts about gordons ??? im just about tearing my hair out as need a boarding place otherwise my sond going to be forced to become a latch key kid which I don't want HELP !!!!

Curlew I contribute to ds's school fees but ds is unable to participate in any after school clubs.

No parent even living in Central London could provide their DC with the multiple and varied opportunities that top independent schools offer their DC's day in day out. I'm not saying it's right that a tiny % should receive so much. I genuinely believe that more money should be channelled into state education rather than fighting pointless wars let's improve state ed and our crippled NHS or maybe we could all pay a couple of pennies more in tax or my now removed CB could be channelled into state ed instead of some pointless government quango.
My DS's school since it's foundation has always take those who are financially disadvantaged.

"My DS's school since it's foundation has always take those who are financially disadvantaged."

Yeah, right.

"Curlew I contribute to ds's school fees but ds is unable to participate in any after school clubs."

Bisjo- can I ask why not?

Yup curlew founded in the 14 th century it was the founders vision to provide through charitable endowment access to education for those who would benefit the most irrespective of social background. Seems pretty clear to me.
In practice in the 21st century this means anyone can apply from any background; the interview process favours those who might not shine in a 8-10 min interview and a computer generated test, most helpfully even before registering you can get an idea of the size of bursary the school will offer, then all your DS has to prove is that he meets the schools admission criteria. Seems pretty fair to me.

So is OP right and by being assertive she can get the opportunities for her son over those who are "dire" or do the schools go out of their way to encourage applications from those most in need.......

Christs Hospital state on their admissions page that admissions are based on academic achievement. OPs said her son is working towards level 5s so has a reasonable chance of getting in.
OP, there is a bursary table in their website, I am sure you can get a rough idea of what you could receive from that, or you could tell us your pre tax income and your housing costs and we could help work it out.

hardboiled In amongst most in need I did mean those who were bright, clearly in a selective school anything else would be irresponsible. It just seems to me that here we have a parent who wants rather than needs, nothing wrong with that, we all want the best for our children. However she also seems to think her wants carry some degree of entitlement that would be entirely unjustified if she were trying for London day schools. I know my DDs' schools, and other London day schools, go out of their way to find the bright children in most need building up relationships with schools and teachers etc. because it is core to their founding ethos, and I know that has given amazing opportunities to some of their very bright peers who really did come from backgrounds where as carers themselves, living in poverty with a parent or parents with more than one job (including shift work as taxi drivers etc), after family illness and bereavement led to financial disaster, having become refugees etc. they had a need that it would be hard to dispute (unless of course you are a middle class parent who wants a place at the school and feels that their child's lack of disadvantage counts against them, heard plenty of that)

Perhaps she is right and Christs's and Reed's will assess her want as a need because those who are in "dire" need don't come to their attention but I am

Hi
I have a son who has boarded since age 11 and live in the same area as you. Orleans was not right for my son. Boarding is not an easy option. A few things to think about. Teddington schools open days aren't very good. They don't try and sell the school to you where as Orleans does.so don't go on open days alone. I don't think Orleans is a better school, they are much of a muchness. I know quite a few parents who tried to get their children into independent schools and ended up sending there children to Orleans and have been extremely happy with it. I also know people with children at Teddington who rate it highly. I know people at both schools who aren't that excited by them. And parents who have DS at Teddington and DD at Waldegrave and say Waldegrave is a lot better.
I don't blame you if you don't think it is the right school for your child.
With regard to boarding as a working parent . I would not want to do it if I worked full time. I have flexible hours. This term there are 3 days I need to go up to the school. The school tries to plan parents consultation days/ concerts etc on pick up days. three day a term is fairly average to would equate to 9 days holiday a year.So parent never turn up at things but I think it is important and I like going. also it is the only opertunity I have to see my son with his friends and get to meet his friends .I really don't want to work during school holidays. I don't see my son during term time and want to spend time with him in the holidays. This was even more the case in year 7 and 8. boarding also means he has lost touch with his primary friends so doesn't have friends around in the holidays . he skypes his boarding friends.
My son loves boarding and it is the right school for him but it wouldn't solve my child care issues if I worked full time. I also wouldn't want my young teenage /pre teenager going home alone everynight. Or hanging out in parks, street corners, York house gardens etc. But studyzone does cater for this age group up till 7 pm.
There is no problem wanting a different education for your child. But they will change a lot over the next 2-3 years. they may not want to go to koosha kids very shortly and you have to start being more imaginative about how out of school childcare works for you and yours

shooting At CH most children receive some sort of bursary so she doesn't need to demonstrate any 'need' other than a financial one. If I recall correctly anyone who has a family income below 100k will receive some sort of bursary. I know nothing of the other schools but my step brother attended CH for pretty much the same reasons as the OP wants her son to attend.

hard boiled but elsewhere I have heard that as random said CH do assess need, what your local school is like etc. (I wonder what OP will try on that one) and also that they do go into primary schools in areas of deprivation to encourage bright children to attend.

I am actually well aware of how some Boarding Schools use their bursary and scholarship funds to get clever / talented bums on seats having done the rounds of a few "big names" with parents of bright pupils who actually could afford to pay, but had a child with a talent and could play them off against each other. I just thought that with such a strong founding ethos of philanthropy schools like CH and Reeds would be different.

I can't comment on all boarding schools but I've looked at quite a few big names over the years and I've listened to lots of talks about scholarships and bursaries and heard parents quizzing the school about how their DC can get one. I've never heard parents play one school off against another although I accept it might happen at less well known less/non selective schools struggling out fill their vacancies. We've never applied for a scholarship but friends whose children have tried to get one into schools like Harrow Kings Canterbury and Eton all comment on how fierce the competition is and if they are successful I don't get the impression they are negotiating the size of any financial reward. At my DS's school and other similar institutions a scholarship carries little i.e £100 or no financial reward. It used to but this reward was not means tested and is now being channelled into means tested bursaries for all to apply for.

True, the wording of the original post could have been better, but essentially op is asking opinions about 3 schools, if she had written 'could I please have opinions on CH, Reeds and Gordons and what their bursary policies are' then nobody would have the information to flame her as they wouldn't even know what the state option was.

So, shes 'guilty' of being too open with her information. Perhaps people can look beyond this 'too much information' and give opinions on the schools she would choose to send her ds to if he is successful rather than judging the reasons for making this choice.

In the end, you only know that her state option is because she slipped up and toldyou. You only know the other difficulties with her ex because she told you. This doesn't equate to a sense of entitlement, smoke screens or anything else - it equates to being too free on a forum with information.

So - opinions on schools

Gordons - I've known a lot of youngsters go through this school, they either seem to love it or hate it. Until recently it seemed to have an overiding 'miltary' ethos (parades etc ) and the girls boarding houses in particular had quite bad bullying problems if they didn't fit in with the group quickly.

CH - very competitive, personal experience they back off when there is obvious disharmony between parents about a child attending there (was told that both parents MUST sign the admission and bursary forms)

Reeds - getting increasingly difficult as many who get rejected from Royal Grammar School in Guildford tend to then apply for Reeds. Their new, shiny very expensive 'Futuretech' design centre is attracting a lot of attention. They do work a lot with local primary and secondary schools.
Their bursary policy is foundation bursary only; something like the boy must have lost the support of one parent for a variety of reason, have a particularly difficult home life etc - these bursaries are for day and boarding places and stem from Reeds originally being founded as an orphanage.
The bursary process is difficult, you have to do full financial disclosure and a statement in support of application, reference from current headmaster and the parent has to be interviewed in addition to the child passing the entrance exams and boarding assessment if applying for a boarding place.
Currently going through the Reeds process for a day place.

All of these schools will expect a parent to be able to contribute according to their means, so its by no means free - for example Reeds do say that they work on at least a 25% parental contribution so with fees of £21, 000 and you have to factor in uniform and other extras, the bursary will not cover all of this except in exceptional circumstances.

Theres no reason for OP not to give it a go, but do weigh up the commitment and check out other alternatives as it does depend on who else is applying and how far the bursary pot has to be divided.

Happy All the biggest name girls' schools, apart from Wycombe Abbey (simply that no one I know has tried, that is not to say it isn't possible), some big name, one very posh , co eds, a few Preps and one boys school you mentioned there (and some others). I wouldn't have said anyone I know who has done it targeted schools that were struggling, just seeing what they could get at chosen school(s). I wasn't particularly talking big money because as I say they were parents who can pay, but 25% say, is always welcome. Of course if you are absolutely hanging in on getting your DC into a particular school as I know so many are with Winchester say, then you would need some nerve and brass neck to try it but if three schools are offering broadly similar propositions and all want your DC I might have tried. Certainly a culture shock for those of us in the London day school ratrace.....

Labro If you read through the thread it was the post where she implied that proving she was not a "chav" or "yummy mummy" was key and that those in the most dire circumstances wouldn't be on the starting grid that most suggested entitlement and actually I have tried to give constructive advice. I really think if she walks into an interview with Reeds and manifests some of the attitudes we have seen expressed here, either about her state school options or more generally, she will do her son no favours.

True as well shooting. Apologies as I missed that post. Its worth remembering op that with bursaries that they are looking for an end result and giving the means to facilitate that end rather than giving something away.

CH does go strictly on academic ability for it's first round, it's test based but they look for potential and does use the common entrance exam.

2nd round they invite approx the top 240 from the tests to a 2 day assessment (for approx 117 competitive entry places - there are other presentation places). A huge part of that assessment is about finding dc that are a good fit for the school - those that they think will benefit and thrive there. Actually I think the focus may be more on discounting those that don't suit IYSWIM

However having "spoken" to teachers/employees involved def then look at social needs to whittle down to the admissions list, then they have a waiting list. Social need may include things like have a disabled parent - not necessarily entitled to a huge bursary (can't assume they are "poor").

I should think a parent with a residual income after mortgage of £100k will indeed be paying full fees!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CH are generous with their bursaries but you def notice the financial sacrifice of sending your dc there - they are very very strict in recent years for new entrants about what expenditure is deducted etc. If you have equity in your house valued at more than £500k then there is a percentage of income charged against it - after all potentially you could remortgage your home with that level of equity to pay independent school fees.

Those that receive full bursary would have an income typical of someone in receipt of state benefits only.

There is a "sister" school to CH as well although they've been completely seperate for centuries I think - based somewhere close to Guildford - just can't remember the name...

King Edward's in Surrey

"King Edward’s was founded as the Bridewell Royal Hospital by the ‘Boy King’, Edward VI, in 1553. The aim was to provide education for the City of London’s needy children, and our Foundation still provides bursary assistance to a substantial proportion of our pupils, true to its founding purpose. Although the School adopted its present name and relocated to its current site at Witley, Surrey, in 1867, close links with the City have always been maintained. The annual Service of Thanksgiving at St Bride’s Church in Fleet Street, held in March, is a colourful occasion attended by the Lord Mayor of London and dignitaries from the City Livery Companies.We want every pupil to receive the best possible education at King Edward’s and, as an Old Witleian, take with them the happiest of memories and lasting friendships into the future."

I should imagine they offer good bursaries as well.

There was quite an upset last year when CH sent letters to parents of children who didn't get through and suggested they apply to King Edwards!
They are also a foundation. Its worth looking around as there are quite a few schools offering foundation places, particularly to parents looking for full boarding places.

shooting a large proportion of pupils at CH will be in receipt of a bursary that is 50% or less, so would easily be able to afford fees at a day school.

curlew ds has to sing for his school fees supper so has no time to do school clubs.

hardboile, exactly there is usually a reason why they need boarding, some pupils just live in the middle of absolutely nowhere!! Some have 3 or 4 dc in a 2 bed flat that sort of thing, some parents will be old blues and want their dc to go there because of it's social diversity despite getting only a small burasry. Some will get extra discount through being related to the Wests, all sorts of reasons.

The only family I knew who sent their DC to CH could afford the fees but wanted the opportunities and unique diversity. I totally get that, if I had thought either of my DDs suited to Boarding I would have certainly looked there. What I don't get is why someone who cannot pay for it would be in any way perceiving they had a superior right to benefit from charitable foundations when lots of parents are more than happy with the opportunities they already have, and their need is no greater than that of many parents, and indeed considerably less than others. The rubbishing of a good local school and derogatory stereotyping of all other parents who might have a claim to the philanthropy smacks of illusions of superiority which isn't exactly embracing CH's inclusive values is it? No one on here is criticising OP for what she wants for her son, as Labro said if she had simply asked advice on the opportunities she would have received it.

I don't think the OP did come across as believing she was superior. As I said, my step brother went as his mother didn't want him coming home to an empty house every night, just like the OP doesn't want that for her son. My step brother came from a prep but still received a 50% bursary. They could have afforded to send him to a private London senior but wanted boarding, CH were clearly fine with this.

In the end, all 3 schools, even with an identifyed boarding need then means testfor the actual bursary, friends with children at CH who fit this criteria have still seen their contribution increase year on year, so you do have to go into it with eyes wide open to how much you are going to be paying throughout your childs education. Even the places where children are presented it states that some of these hold no monetary value for the parent.
Do always have a back up plan, whether its a day school so they don't tend to finish later in the senior years or a state school, whether local or out of catchment.
It has to be something your ds wants and the schools (obviously) have to want him. With the added hurdle of court orders it will be difficult but best of luck

Thanks for all the help and advice
I just want the best for my DS I know I don't have the funds but I am willing to give it a try , I don't think I am any needier or entitled than anyone else but if you don't ask I guess your never going to get.

Yes it may seem cheeky and there probably are more deserving cases who wouldn't have the courage to even apply but I am willing to put myself thru and fund a court case to give my son the opportunity because if I don't there will always be the what if so I'm not being rude arrogant or thinking I'm entitled I'm not I'm just trying everything I can think of and if it doesn't work at least I tried . got gordons open day tomorrow , then reeds in a couple of weeks DS took CH test on Saturday am expecting him to pass but you never know , spoke to his teacher and they are expecting him ( with a lot of work ) to be able to sit level 6 maths for his stats his English is appalling tho barely scraping so will need to work on it giving him half term off the back to work in November !!! Good luck to everyone who's waiting for that letter thru the door because we all just want the best whatever that may be .... ,phew its been emotional