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Welcome to Scotsnet - discuss all aspects of life in Scotland, including relocating, schools and local areas.

Gender Recognition Reform - Bill at Holyrood

259 replies

ArabellaScott · 23/10/2022 14:18

This Bill goes to parliament for discussion on Tuesday.

If you'd like to write to your MSPs to raise the issue of women's rights and/or children's rights, here are some useful ideas for points to raise/form letters:

forwomen.scot/08/10/2022/gender-recognition-reform-bill-stage-1-action/

To find your MSPs:

www.writetothem.com/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Rainbowshit · 18/11/2022 04:47

So it looks like the SNP and the greens are going to vote down all the amendments that would provide more protection for women and children. I won't forget. 🤬

tricervixtops · 19/11/2022 08:35

Petition: Update the Equality Act to make clear the characteristic “sex” is biological sex www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard/4668426-petition-update-the-equality-act-to-make-clear-the-characteristic-sex-is-biological-sex

Bumping this here for anyone who hasn't yet signed and shared. Ask those you share with to share.

Runningslow · 21/11/2022 12:53

I’m wondering if by voting down the amendments it might make more people vote against it.( though I doubt it) . When is the next vote?

RhannionKPSS · 21/11/2022 13:39

The next vote is tomorrow morning.

Runningslow · 21/11/2022 13:55

Thanks Rhannion. Just sent another batch of emails. I’ll be interested to see if Labour votes change considering none of the amendments were passed

ArabellaScott · 21/11/2022 14:06

I have no faith at all in any one of my MSPs (other than the Conservatives, who've already said they'd do their best to get amendments through). I've written to them all multiple times, the others have made their positions very clear. They don't give a fuck.

OP posts:
RhannionKPSS · 21/11/2022 21:56

I think they will have to have a third day of amendment discussion, can’t see them getting through the rest tomorrow.
The bill with amendments that are passed will be presented for the whole parliament to vote on, I would imagine before Christmas. The SNP/Greens with cowardly Labour are determined to push this.

RhannionKPSS · 21/11/2022 22:13

Sinead Watson & Richie Herron who have both detransitioned will be speaking at the Scottish Parliament tomorrow. Let’s see how many MSPs turn up to listen to people who actually know what they are talking about.

Runningslow · 22/11/2022 12:14

I feel like tagging Maggie chapman in every detransition post that I see.

RhannionKPSS · 22/11/2022 16:13

Runningslow · 22/11/2022 12:14

I feel like tagging Maggie chapman in every detransition post that I see.

Please do tag her

RhannionKPSS · 07/12/2022 10:48

Can I urge women on here to please carry on contacting your MPs and MSPs everywhere, especially Labour. We need Labour & Conservatives to start least pause the bill.The debate is 20th December & 21st December for the vote. They are pushing on with this & hoping that it will be forgotten in the new year, but we won’t forget or forgive.

RhannionKPSS · 09/12/2022 22:43

💚🤍💜Rally for Women’s Rights 21st December at Holyrood 1 - 2 pm ( that’s the day of the vote ) please come if you are able, men welcome too.
Please try to get tickets for the public gallery and join other women in making our presence felt. We aren’t going to let this happen quietly. 💪💪💪

Justtoshare · 12/12/2022 16:04

Compare and contrast: Reply from a Conservative MSP versus a Green MSP.
The Green MSP:
'Thank you for your email about the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.

This proposed reform is one which I have long supported, and which my party promised to support in the 2021 Scottish Parliament election. The effect will be to make it easier for trans people to obtain a gender recognition certificate (GRC), a process which is currently much criticised by trans people and their allies.

I am aware of objections which have been raised, but I believe that many of these are based on misunderstandings. In particular, the legislation proposed will not affect access to single-sex spaces or services, which are already required not to discriminate against trans people unless this can be shown to be necessary in certain circumstances. This principle of non-discrimination is not dependent on GRC status, and this will remain the case following reform of the GRC process.

There are also concerns about the quality and accessibility of trans healthcare, and while this is not directly related to changes to the process for obtaining a GRC we are committed to improvement in these services. We have already secured crisis funding from the Scottish Government to begin the process of reforming these services, and we expect to bring waiting times in line with other NHS services as well as develop new delivery models. We also expect recommendations on the best ways to achieve equality for non-binary people.

These reforms are, in my view, long overdue. The delay in delivering them has been accompanied by a disturbing rise in transphobic sentiment in politics and in the media, as well as a rise in hate crime. I believe that the Scottish Government and all political parties have a responsibility to challenge transphobia, just as we must challenge homophobia, racism, misogyny, sectarianism and other forms of prejudice. Passing this legislation is only one step, but an important one, and I look forward to voting for it.'

Conservative:
'Thank you for contacting me regarding the SNP/Green Government’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill.

This is a very sensitive area of debate and there are strong views on all sides. We recognise the need to improve the process for trans individuals, however we also believe strongly in the need to protect vulnerable individuals and the rights of women and girls.

The Gender Recognition Reform Bill as drafted does not get this balance right. We are concerned that, among other issues, the Bill reduces the minimum age to 16, removes the need for medical evidence and significantly reduces the period that applicants must live in their acquired gender for those seeking a Gender Recognition Certification.

Scottish Conservative MSPs were allowed a free vote because this debate needs to be constructive with concerns about the Bill listened to and addressed. Nicola Sturgeon must address the concerns that have been expressed by her own MSPs with the legislation.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me on this issue.'

No prizes for guessing who would now get my vote?

Yes, the one who didn't imply I am a transphobic bigot for standing up for my sex-based rights and children's safeguarding needs.

Rainbowshit · 12/12/2022 23:40

Justtoshare · 12/12/2022 16:04

Compare and contrast: Reply from a Conservative MSP versus a Green MSP.
The Green MSP:
'Thank you for your email about the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.

This proposed reform is one which I have long supported, and which my party promised to support in the 2021 Scottish Parliament election. The effect will be to make it easier for trans people to obtain a gender recognition certificate (GRC), a process which is currently much criticised by trans people and their allies.

I am aware of objections which have been raised, but I believe that many of these are based on misunderstandings. In particular, the legislation proposed will not affect access to single-sex spaces or services, which are already required not to discriminate against trans people unless this can be shown to be necessary in certain circumstances. This principle of non-discrimination is not dependent on GRC status, and this will remain the case following reform of the GRC process.

There are also concerns about the quality and accessibility of trans healthcare, and while this is not directly related to changes to the process for obtaining a GRC we are committed to improvement in these services. We have already secured crisis funding from the Scottish Government to begin the process of reforming these services, and we expect to bring waiting times in line with other NHS services as well as develop new delivery models. We also expect recommendations on the best ways to achieve equality for non-binary people.

These reforms are, in my view, long overdue. The delay in delivering them has been accompanied by a disturbing rise in transphobic sentiment in politics and in the media, as well as a rise in hate crime. I believe that the Scottish Government and all political parties have a responsibility to challenge transphobia, just as we must challenge homophobia, racism, misogyny, sectarianism and other forms of prejudice. Passing this legislation is only one step, but an important one, and I look forward to voting for it.'

Conservative:
'Thank you for contacting me regarding the SNP/Green Government’s Gender Recognition Reform Bill.

This is a very sensitive area of debate and there are strong views on all sides. We recognise the need to improve the process for trans individuals, however we also believe strongly in the need to protect vulnerable individuals and the rights of women and girls.

The Gender Recognition Reform Bill as drafted does not get this balance right. We are concerned that, among other issues, the Bill reduces the minimum age to 16, removes the need for medical evidence and significantly reduces the period that applicants must live in their acquired gender for those seeking a Gender Recognition Certification.

Scottish Conservative MSPs were allowed a free vote because this debate needs to be constructive with concerns about the Bill listened to and addressed. Nicola Sturgeon must address the concerns that have been expressed by her own MSPs with the legislation.

Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me on this issue.'

No prizes for guessing who would now get my vote?

Yes, the one who didn't imply I am a transphobic bigot for standing up for my sex-based rights and children's safeguarding needs.

I got this word for word from that wee sh*t today too. 😡

Justtoshare · 13/12/2022 13:12

From Labour MSP:
Thank you for your email regarding your concerns about the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill, which I have noted.
I will be sure to give the Bill my full consideration when it comes before Parliament at Stage 3.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2022 07:33

Have written a final futile plea to my MSPs to vote down this appalling bill. Will just have to hope that legal action will scupper it eventually.

RhannionKPSS · 20/12/2022 19:33

It’s a shit show here! Shame on all of those MSPs.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2022 19:38

I'm crying with anger at how badly females have been let down by MSPs tonight. Shame on them all.

Rainbowshit · 20/12/2022 19:40

How could they have voted to let sex offenders share showers and accommodation with vulnerable female prisoners. It's disgusting. I'm so furious.

JamMakingWannaBe · 20/12/2022 20:56

After the shit-show of a "debate" today, I'm definitely going along to the protest tomorrow. Shameful. I have a young daughter and I'm scared for her future.
See you at 1pm

Justtoshare · 20/12/2022 20:56

Come on UK Government....I want you to intervene. Scottish children and women are also British and deserve better then this. It must be beyond their actual devolved powers given what the Equality Act says.

Catsolitude · 20/12/2022 22:21

I could not be more angry and upset. This should be all over the news and the papers. There is no safe space for women and girls now. How any woman can vote SNP now is beyond me. Not to mention my disappointment in Sarwar. Has Ross Greer ever campaigned on anything green? Or anything for the benefit of the majority of Scotland?

RhannionKPSS · 21/12/2022 01:24

JamMakingWannaBe · 20/12/2022 20:56

After the shit-show of a "debate" today, I'm definitely going along to the protest tomorrow. Shameful. I have a young daughter and I'm scared for her future.
See you at 1pm

See you at 1 pm on Wednesday

GrrrrAReform · 21/12/2022 01:53

I've decided to attend the protest tomorrow. I really hope there's a decent turnout. This is such a farce. How can we stand by while 61 MSPs voted against giving sex offenders GRCs? How can anyone in good conscience have voted against that? And kids starting the GRC process at 15 and a half? Someone who hasn't even sat their Nat 5s?