Gender Recognition Reform - Bill at Holyrood

[ArabellaScott]

This Bill goes to parliament for discussion on Tuesday.

If you'd like to write to your MSPs to raise the issue of women's rights and/or children's rights, here are some useful ideas for points to raise/form letters:

forwomen.scot/08/10/2022/gender-recognition-reform-bill-stage-1-action/

To find your MSPs:

www.writetothem.com/

Really disappointed in Nicola Sturgeon
Never thought she would trample over the rights of women

Really? I think she is a stone cold narcissist devoid of any emotion other than when she thinks it is of some advantage to her. She'd trample on her mother's grave if necessary.

I truly hope Westminster / Kemi Badenoch step in before more women are harmed.

The photo of the blokes in dresses cheering on Sturgeon and co should be enough to peak more people.

I think what will peak people was the voting down of amendments to restrict convicted sex offenders from the GRC process.

Whatever MSP's thought of the GRRB as a whole, voting down those amendments was utterly inexcusable and indefensible. I don't see how it can be defended in any way.

This and the opposition to the six words amendment in the Forensic Medical Services Bill have destroyed any of my previous belief that Scotland's politicians (with a few brave exemptions) give a flying fuck about women.

Kemi Badenoch being the grown up in the room. While the SNP are waxing lyrical about UK overlords overturning the will of the Scottish people (which I suspect might be the point of all this in part), she has issued a very moderate and sensible statement pointing out that this clashes with UK law and the SP should take the time to fully consider all the issues.

Where were the transmen? Just shows how much of a men's rights movement this is. Men cheering it on, women (the real tyoe) protesting.

I have never been muck of a fan of NS but even I was shocked when she didn’t even speak out to condemn death and rape threats to Joanna Cherry..

I judge her on her actions rather than words and she is no feminist.

Faux feminists, Sturgeon, Shona, Chapman et all are appalling.
Ash Regan, Pam Gosal , Rachael Hamilton, Tess White & Russell Findlay were fantastic

@Rainbowshit @BinBandit you have not broken or busted me! I just went to my bed and left you all to your wee echo chamber.
I'm also completely unclear why you chose to report that particular comment.
Ironically it was the gender critical threads on Mumsnet alongside knowing two completely unrelated trans people that clarified my views on the whole issue. It's actually a human rights issue and like all human rights, they are inalienable. Which means that women don't lose their existing rights when trans people's rights are enabled or reinforced.
It makes more work for policy makers and institutions- in a rights impact assessment everyone must be considered. So eg toilets must remain single sex BUT there must ALSO be completely safe non gendered and private toilets where any people can have privacy for a variety of reasons- it's not enough to say unisex toilets for all, as that would be removal of rights.
It's as if you have lost the ability to think critically. Trans people exist and whether you like it or not have always done so. Now they don't have to live in secret although they still face terrible prejudice not least on here.
You've also quoted a number of horrid things that have happened where crimes are committed - these are the status quo and have nothing to do with new legislation. Perhaps the new legislation will make those things less likely- or more likely - or there will be no change. That can't actually be predicted or reliably linked as there are too many variables, but experience in other countries including Belgium and Eire shows little impact on women's safety. (As someone here is a statistician I hope you have created an extensive risk/ benefit analysis).
The safe space in jail, for me, has got to be the most ludicrous example that posters always come up with. Do you know what prisons are like? They are absolutely not safe and are full of people suffering the most awful mental health issues, the effects of poverty and violence and trauma. People experience violence in all prisons, including suicide. Prison is dangerous.
Anti trans posters on here also have a deeply dodgy set of bedfellows. Kemi Badenoch! As one of the more radical tories in this government which has done so much to destroy services including childcare and health, which women rely on daily. And then there are the people who campaign alongside the Mothers Union and right wing US Christian groups. Wings over Scotland and their hideous chums.
It's no longer about supporting women when these groups get involved- and the level of misogynistic hatred against Nicola Sturgeon expressed on here would give Jeremy Clarkson pause.

The one thing these minor legislative changes actually do is give trans people some way towards equality. I'm happy about this!

The other huge elephant in these threads is that there is a MASSIVE epidemic of teenage girls who want to transition but are unable to receive support or counselling due to cuts in service. It's as if these people aren't important at all and is never talked about because you are all so busy looking for bad men in dresses.

Women in Scotland are concerned about all the young girls who want to self harm by cutting off their breasts and taking hormones. Women are concerned about children being told they were born in the wrong bodies. Women care about Sinead Watson and all the other confused young people out there.
Women are not giving up on our rights so you really need to get used to it and that’s a promise to you, promise

Ooh, it's TRA bingo card time! And all in one post!

• echo chamber
• rights are not a pie
• why hasn't anyone suggested 3rd spaces? (Note - we have. Many times)
• trans people exist
• changing the law might make women less safe, but who gives a shit right?
• prisons are not safe....so let's stick actual convicted male sex offenders in there! That'll help!
• Tories bad
• you're all right wing
• minor legislative changes/paperwork/administrative change - that's all it is. But it's so important, it must be done now, now, now at all costs!

And two other points -

You seem concerned about the epidemic of teenage girls wanting to transition. We are too. But because we think that perhaps it might be a good idea to investigate why there is such an epidemic (rise of 3000%) and why girls in particular are being affected. But We're told that is transphobic. Researchers have been deemed transphobic for even suggesting research into this area might be a good idea. A social contagion of this extent would normally be covered by researchers students, policy makers etc in depth. There would normally be a plethora of undergraduate papers looking at a pressing, contemporary issue. There's not.

• you mention misogynistic abuse towards Nicola Sturgeon. Any comment at all another the rape threats aimed at Joanna Cherry by a member of the SNP, serious enough to be deemed credible by Police Scotland, which Nicola has never commented on?

Its not misogynistic to point out that some women like Sturgeon, Robison and others in the Scottish Government are appalling, inadequate law makers, it’s fair comment as we don’t live in a dictatorship...yet .

Women are not above criticism and to call that misogynistic is incorrect.
Would you describe criticism of male politicians misandry ?

@Waitwhat23 that bingo card really is what I'm saying!! What could you argue with on there?
The "third spaces " you want are implying that there is a third trans group which is an inherently prejudiced view.
However there should still be enough separate, private, safe toilets for anyone who needs or prefers to use them,under a rights impact assessment which is a legal requirement on councils and other organisations.
You haven't actually said why it's ok to hang around and take funds from right wing groups including 55 Tufton Street? If you're not right wing.
There are convicted female murderers in women's prisons. Does this put prisoners at risk of murder? If not why would a sex offender be deemed a risk?
CAMHs are currently trying to address the issue of girls who want to transition with support and counselling. This is because these girls are at high risk of suicide.
It's very concerning because whatever your view on trans people there's no support available due to financial pressures.
Fight for actual support for vulnerable children.

The final comment about JC astounds me. Two wrongs don't make a right where mysoginistic language is concerned!!!!

I don't even know where to start.

Bingo card refers to the nonsense mantras TRA's trot out. We're simply ticking off the ones we see on here constantly.

Third spaces (I.e. a mixed sex space or individual space) as well as single sex spaces is what I'm referring to. The fact you don't seem to understand that is very indicative of your lack of knowledge around what women have been saying.

Right wing, blah, blah, blah. I would take a guess that the majority of the women on here are left wing voting, former Guardian reading feminists. The fact that sex is immutable is shared by everyone (left and right wing) apart from gender ideologists, determined to deny science and reality shows that the truth is far reaching.

As Rhiannon said, women are not giving up their rights and we are not going to wheesht.

Oh, and taking funding off right wing groups?

www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-government-cannot-back-up-26961353

Lorna Slater made herself look a bit of a fool there, didn't she?

Promisetobehave do you have no curiosity as to why there might be thousands of young girls who consider themselves trans? If it were because being trans is more acceptable now, then wouldn't there be swathes of middle aged women also transitioning?

Don't you think there could be elements of social contagion, combined with the pressure on girls to perform a type of femininity they may not be comfortable with?

Yes but @Waitwhat23 a bingo card doesn't make a good argument.
I don't think you can claim to stand for all women or represent what they are saying (any more than I can). But at least I can hold my head up and say that I support equality for everyone and not some kind of gender based apartheid.
Those third spaces you want are ironically inherently biased against women - the answer is to make everyone safer -not just one group. Your vision minds me of a weird Gilead! Maybe this sounds facetious but ask yourself why so much anti trans backing and funding can be traced to some extremely unpleasant groups in the US.

Rishi Sunak reportedly thinks blocking progress for assessment it reasonable, citing potential risks to women and girls throughout the UK, which is very encouraging. Pity the only leader with enough spine to stand up for women’s rights is the Tory one, but this is too important an issue to stand in party lines.

@Rainbowshit @BinBandit you have not broken or busted me! I just went to my bed and left you all to your wee echo chamber.
I'm also completely unclear why you chose to report that particular comment

Well actually my comment was about your comment, not about you no longer responding. We all have lives and can step away whenever we feel like it. And I didn't report anything. Echo chamber lol

I give up. You're so utterly misinformed that it's just frustrating. Might be a good idea for you to actually find out what third spaces are because you either don't understand or are deliberately missing the point. You might want to actually read the Handmaid's Tale and 1984.

Oh, and feminism? It's for women. Males being included means that it's not feminism. You might want to also read up on the difference between equity and equality, the protected characteristics and the EQA2010.

@Elfholloway I am curious about this and so are lots of people. These girls do need support and counselling as they are at suicide risk. Hopefully counselling can help
if there is a possibility that there's social contagion.
However even if that's the case there isn't much to be done about it-forcing young people to do things they dislike rarely has any impact. We need to support them whatever they decide- it's actually their own body and their own life even if as adults we find this shocking or it doesn't match our expectations for the future.

Secretary of State
Section 35 of The Scotland Act 1998
A.S.A.P.
Woman.
Mother.
Grandmother.
White. Scottish.
ex S.N.P. Voter.

@Waitwhat23 I have read all of those books and know that legislation quite well. In fact as part of the consultation on gender recognition I went through it again recently and have done so again in relation to Wellbeing and Rights Impact Assessments.

I actually just disagree with you.
I'm a long-standing feminist who happens to believe that trans women are women and that we need to be allies of all oppressed groups as our oppressors will happily divide and rule. We don't have to be diminished by helping others.
As for the funding, I am not referring to Lorna Slater's claims. Standing alongside the revolting Family Party, Mothers Union, Wings and Kemi ?

So we have a massive increase in (specifically) teenage girls coming out as trans, strongly suggestive of some kind of social contagion. You might think that the responsible thing to do is thoroughly investigate why this is happening (a doubling down on stereotypes maybe, or perhaps indoctrination in schools), to recognise that most will grow out of it (source, NHS England advice), to accept that social conditioning is not benign (as per Cass report), and to give appropriate psychological support to these girls and then only in the most severe cases undertake the extreme surgical and hormonal treatment options that have life long consequences.

Or we can tar anyone who wants to investigate the phenomenon, advocates psychological therapy or a wait and see approach, or in fact does anything other than unquestionably validate these girls ‘inner truth’ as a transphobic bigot. Any discussion on the subject that is not ‘affirming’ will be deemed ‘hate speech’ and large males will use their physical presence to intimidate the (mainly) women who dare to question the ideology out loud. Our leaders will bizarrely label these males as ‘oppressed’, and cheer them on whole heartedly. Those girls who grow up to realise they are not in fact trans but have been left mutilated will not be treated sympathetically but will be ignored or, if they become too vocal, also branded bigots.

How the fuck did we get here.

Anyone who is concerned at the mentions of suicide rates might find this an interesting read -

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/