Referendum

[WeeHaggisFace]

How do you think it will go? Appreciate its only just been announced but gut instinct?

While we’re looking at results, Indy hotbeds seem to be the most deprived parts of Scotland:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/events/scotland-decides/results

which is odd as these are the people who would be affected most by the reduction in public services following independence.

I voted 'Remain' but 38% is not an insignificant number.

According to the BBC report at the time:
"Scotland has voted in favour of the UK staying in the EU by 62% to 38% - with all 32 council areas backing Remain'.

'There were 2,679,513 votes cast (not including rejected ballots) in Scotland. There were 1,661,191 for Remain, exactly 62% of the votes cast.
This was compared with a 51.9% vote in favour of Leave across the UK.
There were just over a million votes for Leave in Scotland (1,018,332), almost 650,000 votes behind Remain'.

Turnout was also down: 'There were 3,987,112 people eligible to vote in Scotland at this election but only 67.2% did.
When Scotland went to the polls for the Scottish independence referendum 20 months ago, voters were more keen to have their say.
Almost 85% of the electorate took part.'

It should never be overlooked that a 'YES' vote in 2014 was a vote to be happy to leave the EU.

I voted no last time and will again. I don't see any benefits to independence, I can only see potential disaster. I am worried my pension that I have worked hard for for 30 years will become worthless (public sector) not to mention my house and savings. All my extended family feel the same. I'm just not a risk taker.

Are there any Nats on here who can PROPERLY explain how currency would work? Someone with knowledge of economics please.

Agree with the poster who mentioned the Silent Majority in 2014. One of our neighbours at the time told us she was voting No but she had let all her friends think she was voting Yes. When the results came through she was giving us the silent thumbs up and cheering signals through her window when nobody was watching. I think a lot of No voters just kept quiet.

Bump

Meh, I find this sad that she wasn’t able to just safely express her opinions. Even more depressing going along with some kind of pretendy yes vote. It’s all that kind of nonsense I don’t want a repeat of. We should not be made to feel afraid in our neighbourhoods or with family…but of course we will, with extra bells on this time. Depressing days we have ahead 😏.

Same here plus my kids are in primary school. The deterioration in the education system since ds1 started primary 6 years ago to now is staggering. Middle ds just went through primary1 play based learning and it’s diabolical. It’s suitable for my 3 year old but hugely regressive for older children. The difference in learning and behaviour between ds1 and ds2 primary 1 class is shocking. If this is the curriculum of excellent that Nicola pioneered I fear for the future generation of kids.

Oh not at all, Nicola got bored of that role quite some time ago and despite asking us to judge her on education, when anyone commented on the failures, it was already in Swinney’s domain, so he could be blamed. Speaking of which, that’s the finance minister off on maternity and so the man of variable/flexible portfolio (‘insert Swinney or Humza here’) will be covering. Talk about lack of talent at the top. I can only imagine the cesspit of elevated councillors that would hold responsibility in an independent Scotland. Promoted straight from their Saturday jobs if they can communicate and spin, no doubt. 🙄

Majority Is another word which the snp define however it suits them. Snp plus greens is a majority. Or is it a majority of voters? Or a majority of Westminster seats? Or whatever other metric they choose?

no in 2014 and no in 2023, if it happens. I’m also married to an Englishman who has had “back to where you came from” abuse. Not fine for people who are black or from out of the uk but the English are fair game. 🙄

nicola and her cronies have had years to prove they’re capable of running a country and have failed at every turn. Odious little woman. Loathe and despise her and everything she stands for.

If you head over to the Wings over Scotland website Stuart Campbell is very reassuring as to why there won’t be a referendum next year .

There seems to be a theory too that this will just keep the party faithful behind them and give them another 5 easy years in Government and more time to destroy Scotland .

He also has a post from the 29 th which if anyone is on face book should be put out there re Sg literature and training on LGBT etc . Our taxes pay for this gibberish and reading the post will leave you in despair . Surely Nats can’t agree with this .

What’s the story with wings over Scotland? He was a rabid Nat last time?

He still is but hates the SNP and really calls them out . I always like to see what he’s saying . Does make me laugh that he lives in Bath though . Shades of Connery ….
However he’s got a really good breakdown on the Parliamentary process the Referendum bill will have to go through and all the legalise that goes with it.

Plus the LGBT courses the SG runs . Beyond unbelievable some of the literature. I thought it was a joke at first .

Jeezo I’ve just read his blog about that gender bollocks our tax is paying for.

The comments under that article are quite something too. Some nats seriously trying to argue that a majority of MPs at the next election should be enough to declare independence unilaterally! Wings (to give credit where it’s due) is arguing with some of them that you could get a majority of seats on less than a third of the votes and that this is clearly not a ‘majority’, and they’d need over 50% of votes to even have a chance of being recognised internationally, and that would only come if the SNP manifesto was explicitly one line saying they stand for independence (although I doubt this would stand up either tbh). Some of them are so desperate for Indy they just want to bypass the stage where they earn majority opinion (which they apparently believe is unobtainable) and declare independence with a minority!

Overall I’m fairly relaxed about it too. They are all talking as though next October will not be ruled lawful (as most expect) and Sturgeon is talking about a ‘de facto referendum’ which doesn’t actually exist in law, so by definition isn’t lawful. I think Wings is right in that they will fight on a full manifesto and so just gain another ‘mandate’ for the collection that others can easily argue is ambiguous, with the primary aim being to deliver SNP dominance in the absence of a good track record rather than independence. They have NEVER gained more than 50% of votes, even in their high water mark of 2015 and are unlikely to get near that again with their abysmal record and all the corruption/secrecy/mismanagement/ gender bollocks. And even if they did, it’s probably not lawful to declare independence anyway on the back of an election result.

So more division and unpleasantness, but that’s been the status quo for the last 10 years anyway. Actual independence isn’t on the horizon. Opposition parties are refusing to play ball and go along with the ‘debate’ and are concentrating instead on attacking the SNP’s record in government - which is so unbelievably shit there will be no shortage of ammunition.

What was the SNP position on the closeness of the Brexit referendum?

Will the next Indyref have stipulations that there needs to be a certain percentage difference for the vote to count?
(Which could benefit either side)

Most of my colleagues (although not all) who support independence are in their early 20's and still live with their parents. They have little or no understanding of economics, budgets, deficits or even, in some cases, the basic concept of paying household bills. They don't appreciate how much some of us have to lose if the economy goes t**s up.

I was chatting with my colleagues on Friday. One is 35, the other 52. Both yes voters. I'm 30. Also a Yes voter. It's nothing to do with age really, it's more about outlook. And we all own our own homes and run out lives fairly successfully thanks.

Celia24

i think those of us who cannot see any gain for independence would love someone to convince us of how it is going to improve Scotland especially as the SNP have done nothing but fail on all the big ticket issues despite have more money to spend per head than rest of Uk ?

The young I speak to just say “ someone will sort it “ and none understood the deficit . They also didn’t realise Norway has food banks and homeless people .

if you own your own homes and are young, don’t you have a mortgage? Do you at least understand the problems facing mortgage holders should independence come to pass? Mortgage in GBP, pay in any other currency will bankrupt you.

Oh well it looks unlikely now anyway. Shame.

inews.co.uk/news/scotland/indyref-2-scottish-government-legal-advisor-sturgeons-referendum-unlawful-1725371

Boris Johnson will resign today! Since Boris was the main reason we needed independence, him being mentioned in every speech about it, Nicola will now be perfectly happy to ditch the whole thing right? (Well, Boris and successive Tory led governments for a whole 12 years which doesn't seem that long to me, but then maybe I'm just old). Will there be a snap general election? And if so will the SNP run a single line manifesto with no other policies than independence as per their plan?

I think she’s just secured her and her 3 rd rate party of local administrators another 5 comfortable years on good salaries with comfortable pensions awaiting them .

let’s hope whoever Is next Pm really calls them out for their fiscal illiteracy and general ineptness . Penny Mordant has form here .

I don't think there will be a snap election because the tories will likely lose but I am glad he's gone so I don't have to watch a load of snp adverts about Boris!

Also find it very ironic the spin about the supreme Court.....turns out their head of legal wouldn't sign off their bill which says a lot!

Interesting letter in the Edinburgh News today.

Also, I bet that most people don't realise that half of what they're paying when they fill up (with extontionately priced petrol) is going to the UK Government.

The block grant from which the Scottish Government must fund public services is just a portion of the money Scotland sends to Westminster. The rest London retains, including money Scots pay for VAT.

Add 11 per cent inflation for the poorest households and an economy in a nosedive and you get huge pressure to protect the most vulnerable on a finite budget – hence the ‘black hole’.

The unfairness of the devolution settlement is that the UK Government gets the inflation windfall from increased VAT and fuel duties, as much as £30bn this year, and doesn’t share this with the devolved nations. If it was shared, the Scottish Government’s budget problem would vanish. In effect, Scotland pays an ‘inflation penalty’ for being a UK region.

The solution is not to renegotiate a settlement the dysfunctional UK Government is busy dis-mantling after a disastrous Brexit. Rather it is to take back control of our nation.

It means managing our economy, resources, investments, foreign policy and international trade for the benefit of the people of Scotland.

Leah Gunn Barrett, Edinburgh.