Referendum

[WeeHaggisFace]

How do you think it will go? Appreciate its only just been announced but gut instinct?

That's a good point @Fairisleflora - low corporation taxes lead to a very one dimensional economy with multi nats not especially committed to the country itself too. But then that's to some extent the issue with the service economy in a lot of countries - east to lose.

There's always comparisons to Ireland and how they've done well with independence,
But for 1st 50 years of independence their biggest export was their people as there were no jobs!
And Ireland has wanted an nhs for years but can't afford it.

To me there's no benefit to independence if my children have to leave for work and would probably never return.

Can anyone actually make me one good thing about holyrood? I’m being genuine… I work in a relatively senior/central local government role and it gives me a great view of their ineptitude. I’m sure they have done something useful I just need reminded.

My company has already said (at least internally) that it will move all our Scottish workers to England or Wales, if Scotland vote for independence. Plans are already being made, similar to last time. To be honest, I get the feeling they will start the process either way at some point, due to the instability the SNP are doing to Scotland. Several of our English and Welsh employees, who work in Scotland, are getting attacked quite regularly too (mostly verbal, one physical.)

I know of at least 4 other big companies that have said the same internally in the last 24 hrs regarding leaving Scotland. Plus there are obviously other ones that have said it publicly previously.

Plus, knowing quite a few people in the Scottish military regiments, from what I am hearing, pretty much all of them would choose to stay in the British Army and would not opt to be in Scotland's defence force.

Totally agree !
The only thing she is a “ world leader “ in is destroying the rights of women and dismantling safeguarding around children. She is a disgrace to Scotland, as are the whole of the SNP/ Greens with only 1 or 2 exceptions.

Not Scottish, so apologise for butting in. If NS wants independence why don't her government take over all tax collection and negotiate to run and manage the economy independently of the rest of the UK? If the country is successfully supporting itself, managing industry, education, health and all other services as an independent country would, then the Scots could judge better the strengths and weaknesses of independence.

I have a lot of Scottish FB friends and they all want independence. I'm shocked here that the consensus is a big fat no. So many English people think the Scottish people hate us and want rid of us. (I agree re Boris!) so that's probably where the English antagonism comes from. The last inderef was so hostile to us and so toxic, it really coloured my opinion of how the Scots see us ☹️

That's exactly what the independence movement are trying to do!

If the SNP really wanted to do this they’d hand back the Barnett formula and show how they would survive on a budget which reflects the taxes raised by Scotland. This would mean a cut of 1/7th of their budget though and when you consider that a lot of that budget is more or less fixed (pensions, welfare, health) Scotland would be in absolute chaos if they did this. Not exactly a good advertisement for independence.

@Teach12 But if this is the case why don't they have the best services in the UK? Why haven't they destroyed thousands of jobs as Faslane and exported them to England?

Surely they realise it would be years for the EU to take them back as they are unlikely to be a large contributor to EU institutions in the initial years.

NS needs to demonstrate better governance before independence. And how does the SNP square the circle with the Green Party of relying on North Sea oil and gas and phasing out their most lucrative income source.

I listen to NS and never see substance just a lot on nationalistic rhetoric

Not forgetting the Barnet formula nonsense.

I have a lot of Scottish FB friends and they all want independence. I'm shocked here that the consensus is a big fat no.

@cottagegardenflower the Scottish people who want us to remain in uk are known as the Silent Majority for a good reason! The independence movement is a lot more vocal but please don't be fooled into thinking they speak for the majority of Scots. Despite SNP being in power more Scots vote for Unionist parties, it's just that vote is split.

Yep, I'm in Scotland and want to remain!

@HarvestFly @cottagegardenflower yes, I am also a mainly no voter, for now, (as was the last time) and I can't be bothered entering into it on FB. If someone asks me I'm not scared to say, but the FB mentality, at least what I've seen so far, is No = non-patriotic Tory lover. I hate the Tory government. Just can't be bothered with it on Facebook.

I think this time the silent majority will be less silent.

whilst not all Yes voters are morons, a substantial amount just live their lives in permanent grievance and just spout what they are told by activists. I've never met one yet that has actually read the original white paper.

They will happily live in this fantasy of scots being "different" and more welcoming etc but the reality is that it's a front. I'm doing some family tree stuff and am back to about 1750 and just found my first relative that was English (and that was on the Border so debateable either way) so I'd pretty much say with certainty that I'm genetically Scottish for generations. Does that make me a better person than my English neighbours? I have more in common with my English colleagues than I have with one of these flag waving, chip on shoulder, complete wazzocks.

The All under one banner thing in Stirling last weekend was an embarrassment. They set their estimate low at 1000 hoping they would smash it - they claim there was 2000 but actual count was about 460. Most of the time they couldn't even turn the camera on the "crowd" as there wasn't one. This has been repeated across the country with these things.

I might also be paranoid but I think half the twitter/other social media support stuff is Russian bots which fortunately aren't able to vote.

And Scexit would be an even bigger mistake.

Most of us yes supporters don't think much of AUOB. We actively avoid them. Most yes supporters also haven't been willing to campaign until a date was set. There will be new marches now with better turn outs.

Claiming most supporters on Twitter are bots...I don't know what to tell you. We voters exist in our thousands and yes, many of us have Twitter accounts.

I'm so gutted to see this announcement. I'm English based in England but do a lot of work with our Scottish offices and last time round was horrible.

There was so much anti-English sentiment from people I'd considered close colleagues if not friends that I used to feel genuinely sick getting on the train north. Luckily many of our meetings are on Teams now but I just know it'll be waiting for me when I have to travel up.

But what exactly has Uk govt done that’s so bad for Scotland?

The appalling miss management of the economy , health and education lies entirely with the Scottish Govt .

Their grip of finances is so poor that although we have higher taxes in Scotland we ended being 200 million worse off as they hadn’t done correct calculations on Barnet formula . If we’d kept the old tax regime we would be 200 million better off . Westminster should be calling them out on this and every other failed policy but very little is said as it would be Anti Scotland .

I am Scottish and feel so embarrassed about the way our country is being run into the ground by second rate regional administrators.

Well I agree "most" supporters don't attend as it's verified that more than a few hundred vote SNP.

But you've also said that I said most supporters on twitter are bots - which I didn't, I said half (obviously not a serious estimate) but it's interesting you've converted "half" to "most".

There has been a clear change in circumstances & there is a clear mandate.
2014 - No vote
2015 - SNP wins UK election in Scotland
2016 - SNP wins Scottish election
2017 - SNP wins council elections
2017 - SNP wins Uk election in Scotland
2017 - Holyrood votes 69-59 for indy
2019 - SNP wins EU election in Scotland
2019 - SNP wind UK election in Scotland
2020- Snp wins scottish election
2020- SNP/ Green indy supporting form coalition & govern.
2022 - SNP wins council elections.

The majority of Scotland support SNP & independence.

Unless you are anti-democracy this can't be denied.

If you're so sure yes will
Lose why are you scared of a legal (and it will be ) referendum.

YES!

beachcitygirl 'The majority of Scotland support SNP % independence'
On what basis do you make this claim? The only evidence we have regarding support, or lack thereof, of independence is the 2014 'No' vote.
Support for the SNP in Scotland is strong, sure, but that does not reflect support for independence.

No one is scared, we just don't want any more of our money pissed up the wall when we know the answer already.

And you do know that all of that is pish and isn't a mandate and that support for indy is still the same as it was in 2014?

and it still cracks me up that when using the Leave/Remain question (same as the EU vote), that the support drops to 38%