Referendum

[WeeHaggisFace]

How do you think it will go? Appreciate its only just been announced but gut instinct?

I'll vote no again.

Very few would
Vote for a party with independence as the single most important aim of that party if they were against that aim.
The snp positively still into power again & again & again in Scotland.

@BinBandit oh I see, do you prefer your money spent on carrying bf a crown from A-B in a limousine, protecting a paedophile from justice, carrie's wallpaper, sending vulnerable refugees to Rwanda, HS2 etc etc
I see you.

You know it is perfectly possible to be disgusted with the actions of Westminster as well as with the SNP government? It's the constant "oh but look at how bad they are" rather than seeking to acknowledge and improve their own inadequacies that just does it for me every time. Given that most of my taxes are returned to Scotland then yes, I do care more about how much the SNP is wasting. UK taxes is a huge pot and proportionally what I contribute is drop in the ocean. It's proportionally a lot more of my tax that is wasted in Scotland.

More people vote for non SNP/green parties than do for. Remain supporters could equally claim a mandate.

@BinBandit of course it's possible to be a fan of neither current government, but that's not what it's really about is it? But then I suspect you know that.
For me, it's about being able to choose a government & equally vote that government out if they don't fuffill manifesto promisesS. It's about the people of Scotland deciding what's best for Scotland.

Its about the possibility of rejoining Eu eventually. It's about the possibility of an end to monarchy. It's about the end to almost continual Tory rule.

65 countries have claimed their independence from England. Not a single one has asked to come back.

Scotland is the only country in the world that has gotten poorer since striking oil thanks to WM mismanagement.

Also @BinBandit wether you or anyone else likes it or not. There will be a vote & the status quo isn't on the table.
If you vote yes, then you must bear responsibility of what happens going forward in an independent scotland
And equally if you vote no - you bear responsibility for the vile policies of a Tory gvmt ad infinitum because that's how England votes.

I'm sorry you gave to square that circle - but you do.

@beachcitygirl are we affected on a daily basis by Westminster, or by the current Scottish Government who have devolved powers in the economy, education, health, housing, environment, transport, tax etc etc etc and who are currently failing in these areas?

Malta voted to rejoin the UK in the 1950s! We said no.

and so it goes on - blah blah blah, oil, blah blah blah Tories, blah blah blah.

The SNP haven't kept a manifesto promise yet and you keep voting for them. I'm not quite sure that you understand how democracy works. As for ending the monarchy and all the rest of it, are you struggling to find the right links from the SNP data bank?

Almost continual tory rule - lol. How do think the majority of Scotland feel about the constant SNP rule? We never get what we vote for and just have to get on with it.

The SNP could have done so much to show us how well an independent Scotland could do but instead they have mismanaged and failed on everything - but then it suits them to keep the downtrodden poor and angry and blaming someone else for their inadequacies.

It is not in the interests of the SNP to show Scotland being successful within the union.

What other explanation is there for the country being so badly run while in receipt of so much money?

@Mousemat25 evidently the majority of Scots do not feel the country is badly run. Are there some things I'm not thrilled about? Sure. Mostly in areas where we do not have the power to do things differently. Some are due to SNP. Not so bothered about that as once we have independence other parties can step up.

A once in a lifetime vote being repeated less than ten years later says a lot in itself.

There has been a material change. Scotland being taken out of EU against our will.

You can't really state that the majority don't feel it's badly run. You don't know what everyone thinks. You can only go on the amount of votes cast.

So for council elections 2022 - 34.1% of the vote share went to SNP on a 44% turn out. Holyrood 2021 - Constituency 47.7% and regional 40.3% on 63% turnout.

Even some of the SNP voters don't think it's well run. They are voting on a single issue and hoping to vote someone else in after.

@BinBandit and? Once again - Independence isn't about current party of government.

I was replying to Celia24. But yes it is to do with the current party. They are the ones trying to run another referendum with no mandate, no legal basis and no lead in the polls. They are the ones who, if there was a Leave vote, would be negotiating the deal and they've proven themselves incompetent liars so far.

Scotland didn't vote to remain in the EU because it wasn't a vote for scots. That's all just a smokescreen anyway, why would you vote to leave and have your own self determination and then join the EU and be told what to do by people you haven't voted for?

And by the way the brexit vote still hasn't changed the polls on wanting independence.

Do the SNP allow any independent thought because it's just the same old same old shite that gets spouted all the time?

Saying it 40 thousand times doesn't make it any more true.

Is ‘material change’ the new ‘levers’?

@Fairisleflora to many if us in england it seems that the scottish hate us, so i hear this a lot ' let scotland go'
It really does spread the hatred of the english as the loudest always get heard
We have scottish friends who now live in england and they won't return home now if this happens and last time , their elderly parents really felt intimidated at the polls and they are dreading if
It causes a huge english/ scottish divide , its like everyone forgets wales and n ireland are also part of uk

@beachcitygirl but you won't be able to join the eu anytime soon, you won't meet requirements , I can't believe people think its easy to just join the eu
Scotland also got to vote in brexit vote and i don't think it was huge margins there either

I's laughable that people think if we vote independence we'll waltz back into the EU. Just like that.

*it's

I have a question and I apologise if this has already been asked and answered.

If SNP win a majority of seats that's not the same as 50%+ of voters voting SNP is it? It's just the way the seats are won.

So how can NS say that a win by the SNP in a general election is the same as a referendum on independence.

I see the question is written in the same way as last time with the positive 'Yes' going to the group who want to break the Union.

John Swinney said this morning that if the SNP won the majority of Scottish seats then that’s independence…then swiftly backtracked and said it would be a majority of votes in Scotland. But I don’t think anyone in the SNP really know. They just say stuff in the hope that it sounds like they are serious to get their supporters off their back.

Well they can't use the Leave/Remain question as they will be screwed as apparently yes voters don't understand. I think they should not get the choice again.

And see above for figures, getting a majority of seats doesn't equate to over 50% of the votes never mind over 50% of the electorate.

Non SNP voters just aren't as represented in Westminster as they should be, the voting system doesn't really work to ensure even representation (and before anyone shouts, I'm not blaming that on the SNP)

"The 2019 United Kingdom general election was held on Thursday 12 December 2019,[1] two-and-a-half years after the previous general election in June 2017. The Scottish National Party (SNP) received the most votes (45%, up 8.1% from the previous election) and won 48[n 1] out of 59 seats — a gain of 13 over those won in 2017, and 81% of the Scottish seats in the House of Commons.[2]

So they have 81% of the seats with 45% of the vote.