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Original poster

SNP stance on pensions

307 replies

Mountaingoat12 · 05/02/2022 20:15

The SNP - in all of its past independence propositions - have been wildly optimistic, but with their latest stance on pensions they have moved to actually gaslighting their supporters. I just cannot comprehend it.

In 2014 the independence white paper stated that after independence, Indy Scotland would pay Scottish pensions. They seem to now be saying that following independence the rest of the UK (I.e. England, Wales and Northern Ireland) will be responsible for paying Scottish pensions, which is just not at all true. Never has been, never will be. I find it just unfathomable. Trying to actually gaslight the electorate???

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7
Rainbowshit · 13/02/2022 22:25

I'm not asking you to go back 8 years. I'm you here and now if you think £200m is a reasonable assumption for the setup costs of a new country? Adding some extra context is the fact that track and trace cost £37bn and a prominent Indy "think tank" estimated £25bn.

alicesfavouritepen · 13/02/2022 22:40

But you are asking me to go back 8 years. That was an immediate start up cost from 8 years ago. If they published that tomorrow I suppose I would wonder if that was a bit low but that's because I can't unread the numerous challenges to that figure in the intervening years. Challenges to the figures over the years don't make their initial estimate invalid. We are dealing with an entirely hypothetical situation. Maybe they could have brought it in for 200 mill or less? Who's to know?

What I would say is that the article you have linked is by far the most extreme of these challenges at the 25 billion mark. Most challenging estimates have been significantly lower ranging from 750,000 to 1.5 billion.

When the situation is considered in the context of the track and trace costing 37 billion, the billions to their pals for PPE and the incalculable price of Brexit, if the SNP published a paper tomorrow that gave the cost anywhere between 200 million and 25 billion then I'd be saying fabulous. Sign me up.

Rainbowshit · 13/02/2022 22:47

@alicesfavouritepen

But you are asking me to go back 8 years. That was an immediate start up cost from 8 years ago. If they published that tomorrow I suppose I would wonder if that was a bit low but that's because I can't unread the numerous challenges to that figure in the intervening years. Challenges to the figures over the years don't make their initial estimate invalid. We are dealing with an entirely hypothetical situation. Maybe they could have brought it in for 200 mill or less? Who's to know?

What I would say is that the article you have linked is by far the most extreme of these challenges at the 25 billion mark. Most challenging estimates have been significantly lower ranging from 750,000 to 1.5 billion.

When the situation is considered in the context of the track and trace costing 37 billion, the billions to their pals for PPE and the incalculable price of Brexit, if the SNP published a paper tomorrow that gave the cost anywhere between 200 million and 25 billion then I'd be saying fabulous. Sign me up.

Challenges to the figures over the years don't make their initial estimate invalid. We are dealing with an entirely hypothetical situation. Maybe they could have brought it in for 200 mill or less? Who's to know?

I don't think my eyes can roll back in my head far enough. Really?! Really?!

They could have brought it in for 200 million. Are you absolutely off your head?

You might be quite accepting of the fact that the snp utterly took the piss out of voters back in 2014, but I'm not.

Crowdfundingforcake · 13/02/2022 22:49

You'd be saying '£200 million to £25 billion, fabulous, sign me up'?

The £37b track and trace figure when measured against similar systems is disputed (check more or less R4 from a couple of weeks ago)

You wouldn't be concerned that the SNP didn't have a more accurate forecast than a figure somewhere between those two amounts?

Rainbowshit · 13/02/2022 22:49

www.heraldscotland.com/news/14213224.health-chiefs-admit-systemic-failure-cost-nhs-project-rockets-50m/

Ok here's one nhs IT project. You still think the £200m was "a bit low"?

WouldBeGood · 13/02/2022 22:56

The Scottish Parliament building cost £414 million 🤷🏻‍♀️

Rainbowshit · 13/02/2022 22:59

www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/snp-criticised-bill-set-scottish-welfare-state-doubles-ps651m-1740409?amp

Still think a new country could have been set up for £200m?

It doesn't bother you that you voted on the basis of this cost in 2014?

Lockdownbear · 13/02/2022 23:02

I'm glad I was out voted in 2014 Smile
Hindsight I honestly think it would be a disaster.

Rhannion · 13/02/2022 23:03

@WouldBeGood

The Scottish Parliament building cost £414 million 🤷🏻‍♀️
Yes it did, and what an almighty waste of money it is.
Rhannion · 13/02/2022 23:04

Over budgets, over blown and an eyesore.

Lockdownbear · 13/02/2022 23:07

Was the cost plan not about £40m because they'd based it on a bog standard office block- rectangle with normal windows. Instead we ended up with a concept design from a Spaniard and a nightmare trying to make it work.

Rhannion · 13/02/2022 23:19

They could have used the magnificent Donaldson’s school building, they could have used the striking old Royal High school, but no they overspent on a rather ugly building, not designed by a Scottish person or much liked by most people.

Rhannion · 13/02/2022 23:20

The phrase “ can’t run a booze up in a brewery “ springs to mind, especially as the Parliament building sits on the site of an old brewery.

Lockdownbear · 13/02/2022 23:22

I have to laugh at thar article 'top Scottish tourist attraction' 🤣 it's aesthetically challenged to say the least.

WouldBeGood · 14/02/2022 08:32

Just demonstrates the costs of things. If it’s £400 million for a building then it’s clearly going to be billions for a country.

WouldBeGood · 14/02/2022 12:19

Blackford been wittering on about pensions again today, now saying Scotland will pay them, but Scots will expect “compensation” from UK for their contributions. Again fundamentally misunderstanding or misrepresenting the system.

annabelindajane · 14/02/2022 12:51

The Russians and Chinese love all this destabilisation of our country .
Independence seekers are playing right into their hands and will be constantly targeted . I believe we need a minimum of £100 billion just to have our own bank .

We are part of a fabulous country and those that think not should go and try living in Russia or China - they’d have a lot more to moan about there but they’d probably end up in prison for doing so - or worse .

Rhannion · 14/02/2022 13:00

@annabelindajane

The Russians and Chinese love all this destabilisation of our country . Independence seekers are playing right into their hands and will be constantly targeted . I believe we need a minimum of £100 billion just to have our own bank .

We are part of a fabulous country and those that think not should go and try living in Russia or China - they’d have a lot more to moan about there but they’d probably end up in prison for doing so - or worse .

Totally agree, although the way things are going here there will need to be new prisons built if women are going to be jailed for standing up for their rights.
annabelindajane · 14/02/2022 13:13

Agree about women and their rights . Scotland is turning into a bit of a stasi state so maybe Scotland is not so fabulous although we can go out and protest . Was referring mainly to Uk as a whole .

Uk is 5 th biggest economy in world by GDP according to Centre for Economics and Business research . Without Scotland they are still 5 th largest economy in world .

500, 000 people left Ireland after independence due to poor state of Irish economy . They would have been tax payers and their families.

Can any of the independence supporters begin to imagine how this would affect the tax base if similar happened here which it undoubtedly would . Probably a lot of pensioners too just to make sure they got what they were due .

The local elections are coming up in May so SNP have to shake up up some excitement in their supporters and they only have to say there will be a referendum soon to keep them on board .

They are easily influenced .

Rainbowshit · 14/02/2022 13:21

@WouldBeGood

Blackford been wittering on about pensions again today, now saying Scotland will pay them, but Scots will expect “compensation” from UK for their contributions. Again fundamentally misunderstanding or misrepresenting the system.
Compensation? I wonder if we humoured him and valued all the cash inflows and outgoes relating to Scottish pensions whether Scots would actually end up owing the rUK money? After all at the moment we have a share of 8.8% of current pension payments and 8% of the population.
Rainbowshit · 14/02/2022 13:25

You couldn't though as none of the NI is ring fenced for pensions.

WouldBeGood · 14/02/2022 14:18

No, exactly. It’s just rubbish

Scianel · 14/02/2022 18:14

@annabelindajane I agree with you about the UK and it always bemuses me to see people going on about what an apparently ghastly country it is. This has been particularly prevelant during covid - every European country imaginable held up as an example of doing more and caring more.
As an immigrant here, it's great, it really is. Nowhere is perfect obviously but being born here is a lottery win by global standards.

boobashka · 16/02/2022 20:08

Good article by a former SNP spokesman setting out the issues facing the SNP/ independence movement: www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/comment/hammer-blow-nicola-sturgeon-former-26244690?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar